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Bledisloe One 2020

mania

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basically there are other postitons i would sort/change before pulling frizell...most of the backline and 8 first
agree. why sotutu didnt start puzzles me. much better 8 than ardie is, though ardie is more versatile. but sotutu is a specialist 8 and better at it.
i'd like foster to relax and take some risks in his selections. else this could the shortest coaching tenure in ABs history.
 

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DMac and Savea have proven themselves as awesome impact/off the bench...just keep using them like that

i should also add, Aussie played really well in general, forced a lot of errors from us and scored a couple of really good tries, both are what champions teams do, punish mistakes (theyre second) and earn the right to go wide (the first)
 
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Woldog

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You guys have to start that big winger who came on late. Not sure of his name Clarke? Daugunu put a stop to almost everything thrown at him, including 3 runs by Ardie Savea. Clarke came on and started to have a bit of punch down that left side.
Koroibete didn't impress me too much, he seemed a little confused on offence a lot of the time and on defence was caught out of position three times.
 

Jabby

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yeah, Clarke, hes Eroni Clarke's son so a bit of pedigree, had a storming SRA, I'll be shocked if we dont see him start next week...actually.....no i wont, i Reiko will probably start at 11
 

GoTheNaki

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yeah, Frizell didn't make many highlight reels but he also didn't make many/any mistakes and 15 tackles in 60 mins is good and was a solid lineout option

I think we also need to look at the game plan, to me it looked like Cane and Frizell we're tasked with tackling and savea was ranging wide, dont think he was even on the tackle stats, I see Frizell copping a bit of flak for not playing like he did for the landers...but if that wasn't the game plan then thats not his fault

basically there are other postitons i would sort/change before pulling frizell...most of the backline and 8 first
Frizell is "one of those guys", he is a guy that does his job very well for no limelight, he is a Conrad Smith, a Sam Whitelock... and more recently a Jack Goodhue, or a George Bridge... These guys are not the "superstars" at their positions, but ultimately keep us in games when those "superstars" cannot defend their counterparts on the other teams. Savea is a hard worker, a strong runner and a very good ball stealer... But I really think his time at 8 is done, I think that experiment is over, especially with Sotutu. He was playing 8 with Read injured... You either have him as a super-sub, or attempt to have him play 6 where him, Cane, and Read were so dangerous in the World Cup. Would that be poor on Frizell? Yeah, it would... But we kinda need any edge we can find at this point in time.

We have a lot more problems in the back line than we do in the forwards at the moment... We are a team that mortgage EVERYTHING on scoring tries... Did we score tries yesterday? Not really... Did we win? Nope.

yeah, Clarke, hes Eroni Clarke's son so a bit of pedigree, had a storming SRA, I'll be shocked if we dont see him start next week...actually.....no i wont, i Reiko will probably start at 11

Absolutely not. That just won't happen. I'll wash my hands with this coaching staff if it does.
 

Jabby

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Frizell is "one of those guys", he is a guy that does his job very well for no limelight, he is a Conrad Smith, a Sam Whitelock... and more recently a Jack Goodhue, or a George Bridge... These guys are not the "superstars" at their positions, but ultimately keep us in games when those "superstars" cannot defend their counterparts on the other teams. Savea is a hard worker, a strong runner and a very good ball stealer... But I really think his time at 8 is done, I think that experiment is over, especially with Sotutu. He was playing 8 with Read injured... You either have him as a super-sub, or attempt to have him play 6 where him, Cane, and Read were so dangerous in the World Cup. Would that be poor on Frizell? Yeah, it would... But we kinda need any edge we can find at this point in time.

We have a lot more problems in the back line than we do in the forwards at the moment... We are a team that mortgage EVERYTHING on scoring tries... Did we score tries yesterday? Not really... Did we win? Nope.



Absolutely not. That just won't happen. I'll wash my hands with this coaching staff if it does.

agreed, and Sotutu wasn't even the only one to have a great SRA, MMT was a top performer in almost ever stat this is measured and the Saders looies were very good...and yet we play someone out of position

these after SRA and he didn't even get in the north squad

METRES
724: Will Jordan
489: Damian McKenzie
443: Jona Nareki
400: Sean Wainui
384: Sevu Reece
380: Richie Mo’unga, Mitch Hunt
378: Ngani Laumape
351: Marino Mikaele-Tu’u
348: Caleb Clarke

CARRIES
99: Damian McKenzie
95: Pita Gus Sowakula
94: Marino Mikaele Tu’u
88: Will Jordan
83: Jordie Barrett
76: Richie Mo’unga
75: Ngani Laumape
74: Shannon Frizell
72: Sio Tomkinson, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sean Wainui

CLEAN BREAKS
15: Will Jordan
13: Ngani Laumape
12: Sevu Reece, Jona Nareki, Sean Wainui
11: Richie Mo’unga, Marino Mikaele-Tu’u
10: Caleb Clarke, Vince Aso, Aaron Smith

OFF LOADS
11: Marino Miakele-Tu’u
9: Will Jordan, Whetukamokamo Douglas, Sevu Reece, Richie Mo’unga
8: Jack Goodhue, Jona Nareki, Josh Ioane
 

Alex Anghel

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Ive not seen the game yet I'll comment on it later, but what I do know from the stats is that Sam Cane clocked up 25 tackles at 100% and the next best on the tackle sheet had 16
That is mind blowing I dont know if even McCaw ever clocked up a number like that. Heck hitting 20 is phenomenal Ive seen Cane and McCaw clock up 22 in the past but not 25... People still think hes a dud selection? what was it? Our 4th best openside you say? Maybe rethink that :p
Cane was very good, I'll give you that, but still does not mean he's the best openside in NZ :p. However, it's a moot point anyway, as since he was appointed as captain, he has to play.

What do you do with the loosies than? In my humble opinion, you have only three options, as follow:
1. Savea at 6, Cane at 7 and Sotutu at 8;
2. Frizell at 6, Cane at 7 and Sotutu at 8 (Savea off the bench);
3. Cane at 6, Savea at 7 and Sotutu at 8 (I saw various opinions that Cane plays more like a 6, and he could be switched to play in that position).

It's time to play a specialist and an in-form player at 8. As everywhere else on the park I might add.
 

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option 2 for me, three people starting in their preferred positions and someone coming off the bench who can cover them all
 

UpTheJumper

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I think Fozzie's gone with the 'get your best players on the park' philosophy. I don't see an issue with putting JB on the wing, he's adaptable. Interested to see how Caleb Clarke and Tupou Vaa'i go. Unleash the young guns on 60'!

So non-one giving the Wallabies a hope in hell? O'Connor's been in good form and their Fijian wingers, Koroibete and Daugunu are dangerous. I'd expect the AB's to walk it, but might be closer than we think?

See, I had a sneaking suspicion that might happen
 

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I recon Rennie is big on picking players on form and not the old boys club which has ****** us for the last 20 years.

How many times have we seen a Wallabies team filled with players who a few season before were okay and are now just getting picked because of who they were or the fact they play for the Waratahs?
Rennie has come in and booted out the has beens (apart from Rob Simmons) and brought in fresh blood for a fresh start and rebooted the culture which was what we needed. The best players today for the Wallabies today were

Daugunu - Bullied the All Blacks in offence and defence.
Lukhan SKL - Unsung Hero
James Slipper
James O'Connor - Kept things calm, nothing too flash but kept the team going.
Pete Samu - Probably the best forward of the day
Harry Wilson - Great on debut and added some punch in our forward pack that has been severely lacking over the years.
+1 Harry Wilson - he was everywhere, hell of a game.

ABs looked a little lacklustre, Wallabies took time to find their shape too, but once they both got into their stride it was a very even contest. I was sat three rows back on the halfway line, and the rain evened it come, coming late in the game when ABs usually pull away.

Make the rest of the series interesting!
 

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yeah, Clarke, hes Eroni Clarke's son so a bit of pedigree, had a storming SRA, I'll be shocked if we dont see him start next week...actually.....no i wont, i Reiko will probably start at 11

I bumped into Eroni Clarke and his wife on the concourse on the way in Said to them: "You must be so proud!" They were beaming, taking it all in. "Enjoy the day" I wished them.

Caleb made an immediate impact when he came on, real zip and penetration down the wing.

Still amazed we drew, credit to the Aussies for hanging on, a loss would have been unfair.
 

Umaga's Witness

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Yet to see the game but reading all the comments. Sounds like a team right at the beginning of their RWC cycle. A lot of experience lost since last year with Read, Bender, Crotty all gone; to go with all the experience and quality lost since the Lions series and 2015. Will take time for all the changes to bed in. Foster only has a 2 year contract right so if he doesn’t get it right by 2022 he could be replaced. Didn’t hurt SA in the last RWC replacing their coach one year out.

Good to read Australia make a good start under Rennie. Good result for them in NZ.
From the 15 that started the World Cup semifinal I think it was just read, retallick, and Scott and Beauden barrett Unavailable. From the 23, maybe one other (I can’t remember who the third back reserve after tj and Jordie was). Wallabies had much bigger changes.
yeah, Frizell didn't make many highlight reels but he also didn't make many/any mistakes and 15 tackles in 60 mins is good and was a solid lineout option

I think we also need to look at the game plan, to me it looked like Cane and Frizell we're tasked with tackling and savea was ranging wide, dont think he was even on the tackle stats, I see Frizell copping a bit of flak for not playing like he did for the landers...but if that wasn't the game plan then thats not his fault

basically there are other postitons i would sort/change before pulling frizell...most of the backline and 8 first
I think even if His less than highlanders quality performance was his fault he still deserves a second chance. But yeah, I think we had a different defensive style from last year, holding off a bit initially so we don’t get wrong footed in our rush (and white was making us second guess), and noR did we manage to get frizell and co running flat off smith like he does for the highlanders, whether that was just because of the game plan or because of aussies defence I’m not sure.

he will be rotated out at some point but I don’t think the next game is the time to do it. Game two is when you want to increase your accuracy as a team. As combinations.
 

Umaga's Witness

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agree. why sotutu didnt start puzzles me. much better 8 than ardie is, though ardie is more versatile. but sotutu is a specialist 8 and better at it.
i'd like foster to relax and take some risks in his selections. else this could the shortest coaching tenure in ABs history.
I umm and ahh about the savea conundrum, because for the most part I agree that he isn’t great at 8, but then he does deliver big moments in big games even at 8. He’s worse at 6 imo. I just wish they had the smarts To adapt the game plan to make use of his strengths (Not gonna happen with Plumtree who told him off in the canes when he started playing 8 and kept going for turnovers), otherwise maybe the bench is his best spot, don’t know. I sometimes wonder if cane could be as effective at 6. He’s got a hard shoulder.
Cane was very good, I'll give you that, but still does not mean he's the best openside in NZ :p. However, it's a moot point anyway, as since he was appointed as captain, he has to play.

What do you do with the loosies than? In my humble opinion, you have only three options, as follow:
1. Savea at 6, Cane at 7 and Sotutu at 8;
2. Frizell at 6, Cane at 7 and Sotutu at 8 (Savea off the bench);
3. Cane at 6, Savea at 7 and Sotutu at 8 (I saw various opinions that Cane plays more like a 6, and he could be switched to play in that position).

It's time to play a specialist and an in-form player at 8. As everywhere else on the park I might add.
As above, what do you personally think about cane at 6?
 

The_Blindside

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From the 15 that started the World Cup semifinal I think it was just read, retallick, and Scott and Beauden barrett Unavailable. From the 23, maybe one other (I can’t remember who the third back reserve after tj and Jordie was). Wallabies had much bigger changes.

I think even if His less than highlanders quality performance was his fault he still deserves a second chance. But yeah, I think we had a different defensive style from last year, holding off a bit initially so we don’t get wrong footed in our rush (and white was making us second guess), and noR did we manage to get frizell and co running flat off smith like he does for the highlanders, whether that was just because of the game plan or because of aussies defence I’m not sure.

he will be rotated out at some point but I don’t think the next game is the time to do it. Game two is when you want to increase your accuracy as a team. As combinations.

Yep, I was focusing more on the dynamic of the team. AB’s level was so high from 2015 and then the draw with the Lions 2017 was indicative of that level dropping off. Then 2019. This Bledisloe result and performance doesn’t surprise me. That gradual loss of key players and importantly combinations, is what I was getting at. Although Rettalick will be back in the team. You just compare the options and caps/level of this team to the one that finished the RWC 2015 final. It‘s a huge disparity. Added to that Foster’s selections by the sounds of it.

Wallabies have been so woeful for last 4 years that they could not get any worse.

A lot can change for both teams in the next 3 years. This is the cycle of the sport.


 
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Alex Anghel

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I umm and ahh about the savea conundrum, because for the most part I agree that he isn’t great at 8, but then he does deliver big moments in big games even at 8. He’s worse at 6 imo. I just wish they had the smarts To adapt the game plan to make use of his strengths (Not gonna happen with Plumtree who told him off in the canes when he started playing 8 and kept going for turnovers), otherwise maybe the bench is his best spot, don’t know. I sometimes wonder if cane could be as effective at 6. He’s got a hard shoulder.

As above, what do you personally think about cane at 6?
I think the team would benefit more from a "Cane (6), Savea (7), Sotutu (8)" combo than playing Ardie out of his 7 preferred position, at either 6 or 8.

What about Luke Jacobson, if fit? Or Papal'ii?
 

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pretty crazy game, wasn't a great match till the last ~25 when it flipped on its head.
All Blacks seemed to be the far more dangerous side when they had the ball the problem was actually getting some possession. They lived on scraps pretty much. Such a glaring issue like that suggests to me that it will be an easy fix.
People are going at DMac as usual and as expected yet seem to mostly be giving Richie a pass or at least overlooking his performance as he didn't do much... sure DMac was involved in some big incidents. The kick that went dead, he tried something if the ball had bounced a foot the other way he would have won a lineout 5m from the aussie line and probably won the game, it didn't quite work which sucked but the potential was there and he almost pulled it off. That so called "strip" that landed aussie a try was a harsh call, if anything he hit the players arm I replayed that over and over and the refs were wrong to call that so quickly if they had looked at it as closely as they looked at Ioanes grounding then I think it would have gone the other way, that is much more a lose carry dropped by contact to the arm than a strip. on the flip side it was a DMac kick return and subsquent wrap around that landed the All blacks first try (also good work Frizell with that last pass). He was also the most dangerous looking player with ball in hand for the AB's where Richie looked pretty lost every time he touched the ball. Not to mention some great defense and a potentially try saving turnover 1m from the try line in the 22nd minute. Richies contribution amounted to a couple of good tackles and 1 good offload in the 2nd half. A lot of the time he got the ball and froze. Part of that I will put on Smith who was slow to clear at times. It frustrates me and not many seem to pick it up but Smith takes a step and double pumps a lot and puts the 10 under more pressure than needed.
Best on show for me was Sam Cane 25 tackles couple of turnovers and all round just a menace at the breakdown without giving away needless penalties. I look at that performance from Cane I recon you take Cane out put anyone else in that position for this game and the All Blacks would have lost. He doesn't just tackle he stops players in their tracks, huge effort.
I'm not sold on the Goodhue/Ioane midfield combination. I really think Goodhue is much more a 13 than a 12 and I wish Ioane stuck to being a winger and learned a new technique for grounding the ball lol. That to me looked like two guy out of position. Leave Barrett at 14 and sort the midfield out....
I could go on But more than anything I'll come back to possession, with a bit more of the ball the ABs would have cruised to win. solve that and everything else will follow I'd start by looking at some of the kicking options and handling errors then cleanouts and security of the ball on the ground, Tidy the lineouts improve some of those areas and the possession will even up.
Was a bit miffed with Jordie Barretts miss from 39m out right in front, that was a sitter. kinda feel like we would have been better off with Richie or DMac kicking the closer ones and conversions. Maybe Jordie was kicker for his experience at the ground but it didn't really work to our advantage. What was strange to me is that when you get wind like that what it often does is stop the ball from having the natural curve you normally get and they just go straight. it looked to me like that was what was happening but Jordie didn't adjust. You could probably forgive those missed conversions but he should have nailed that 39m sitter. Funny how its not being talked about much, maybe it if was a chiefs player who missed it then people would be up in arms :p
 

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I think the team would benefit more from a "Cane (6), Savea (7), Sotutu (8)" combo than playing Ardie out of his 7 preferred position, at either 6 or 8.

What about Luke Jacobson, if fit? Or Papal'ii?
Luke Jacobson looked great for Waikato a couple days ago but the AB's generally don't really call players in unless their is an injury. I expect they will work with what they have got.
Also for mine, 7 is where your best defender goes (obviously Cane). People want to put Cane at 6 because hes bigger than Savea but IMO it just isn't a good mix, we lose too much size and weight at the start of the game when you really need it. We know how good Savea is but the team would be best served with him providing impact off the bench allowing us to start the game with a proper loose forward combo.
 

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pretty crazy game, wasn't a great match till the last ~25 when it flipped on its head.
All Blacks seemed to be the far more dangerous side when they had the ball the problem was actually getting some possession. They lived on scraps pretty much. Such a glaring issue like that suggests to me that it will be an easy fix.
People are going at DMac as usual and as expected yet seem to mostly be giving Richie a pass or at least overlooking his performance as he didn't do much... sure DMac was involved in some big incidents. The kick that went dead, he tried something if the ball had bounced a foot the other way he would have won a lineout 5m from the aussie line and probably won the game, it didn't quite work which sucked but the potential was there and he almost pulled it off. That so called "strip" that landed aussie a try was a harsh call, if anything he hit the players arm I replayed that over and over and the refs were wrong to call that so quickly if they had looked at it as closely as they looked at Ioanes grounding then I think it would have gone the other way, that is much more a lose carry dropped by contact to the arm than a strip. on the flip side it was a DMac kick return and subsquent wrap around that landed the All blacks first try (also good work Frizell with that last pass). He was also the most dangerous looking player with ball in hand for the AB's where Richie looked pretty lost every time he touched the ball. Not to mention some great defense and a potentially try saving turnover 1m from the try line in the 22nd minute. Richies contribution amounted to a couple of good tackles and 1 good offload in the 2nd half. A lot of the time he got the ball and froze. Part of that I will put on Smith who was slow to clear at times. It frustrates me and not many seem to pick it up but Smith takes a step and double pumps a lot and puts the 10 under more pressure than needed.
Best on show for me was Sam Cane 25 tackles couple of turnovers and all round just a menace at the breakdown without giving away needless penalties. I look at that performance from Cane I recon you take Cane out put anyone else in that position for this game and the All Blacks would have lost. He doesn't just tackle he stops players in their tracks, huge effort.
I'm not sold on the Goodhue/Ioane midfield combination. I really think Goodhue is much more a 13 than a 12 and I wish Ioane stuck to being a winger and learned a new technique for grounding the ball lol. That to me looked like two guy out of position. Leave Barrett at 14 and sort the midfield out....
I could go on But more than anything I'll come back to possession, with a bit more of the ball the ABs would have cruised to win. solve that and everything else will follow I'd start by looking at some of the kicking options and handling errors then cleanouts and security of the ball on the ground, Tidy the lineouts improve some of those areas and the possession will even up.
Was a bit miffed with Jordie Barretts miss from 39m out right in front, that was a sitter. kinda feel like we would have been better off with Richie or DMac kicking the closer ones and conversions. Maybe Jordie was kicker for his experience at the ground but it didn't really work to our advantage. What was strange to me is that when you get wind like that what it often does is stop the ball from having the natural curve you normally get and they just go straight. it looked to me like that was what was happening but Jordie didn't adjust. You could probably forgive those missed conversions but he should have nailed that 39m sitter. Funny how its not being talked about much, maybe it if was a chiefs player who missed it then people would be up in arms :p
I still believe that Dmac brings more at 10 than at 15, or off the bench rather than starting.
And I remain of the opinion that Jordie's place is at 15, not at 14.
 

mania

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Was a bit miffed with Jordie Barretts miss from 39m out right in front, that was a sitter. kinda feel like we would have been better off with Richie or DMac kicking the closer ones and conversions. Maybe Jordie was kicker for his experience at the ground but it didn't really work to our advantage.
yeah i was surprised that everyone was kicking the ball high. with the cake tin you have 2 breezes. the one at ground level and another prevailing wind higher up. in the past piri or beaudy would kick the ball low so they only had to contend with one wind.
 

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yeah i was surprised that everyone was kicking the ball high. with the cake tin you have 2 breezes. the one at ground level and another prevailing wind higher up. in the past piri or beaudy would kick the ball low so they only had to contend with one wind.

They seems to be his style, high arcing kicks. It was very blustery at pitch level, but JB should be used to the idiosyncrasies of the Cake Tin by now.

The wind saved us a humiliating defeat when Hodge hit the post.
 
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