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Bledisloe Two 2020

Larksea

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Game to at Eden Park
Referee: Angus Gardner (AUS)

All Blacks: Beauden Barrett, Jordie Barrett, Anton Lienert-Brown, Jack Goodhue, Caleb Clarke, Richie Mo’unga, Aaron Smith; Ardie Savea, Sam Cane (c), Shannon Frizell, Tupou Vaa’i, Patrick Tuipulotu, Ofa Tuungafasi, Dane Coles, Joe Moody. Reserves: Codie Taylor, Alex Hodgman (debut), Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Hoskins Sotutu, TJ Perenara, Rieko Ioane, Damian McKenzie.

Wallabies: Tom Banks, Filipo Daugunu, Hunter Paisami, Matt To'omua, Marika Koroibete, James O'Connor, Nic White, Harry Wilson, Michael Hooper (c), Ned Hanigan, Matt Philip, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Taniela Tupou, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, James Slipper. Reserves: Jordan Uelese, Scott Sio, Allan Alaalatoa, Rob Simmons, Liam Wright, Jake Gordon, Jordan Petaia, Reece Hodge.


The only changes not forced by injury/availability is Rieko ioane being dropped to the bench and Karl Tu'inukuafe dropping out from the bench.
George Bridge and Sam Whitelock are out through injury
Scott Barrett returns from injury and Nepo Laulala is available again after pulling out last weekend for personal reasons.
 
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Jabby

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i like pictures ;)

Best ten at 15, best fullback at 14, centres around the wrong way, second best 7 playing at eight where he's behind multiple players in that position, our depth being tested at lock...good team

 

Larksea

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The All Blacks are clearly going for a gameplan on attack that revolves around 10 & 15 being interchangeable on the field and Jordie doesn't fit into that setup the way beauden and DMac do as guys equally skilled at 10 or 15. But Jordie is being picked at 14 on his form and ability.
I dont see any problem with that, Ive said it a million times, pretty much since 2008 onwards the All Blacks have preferred Guys with the skillset of fullbacks on the wing over "specialist wingers" we've almost always had a fullback on one of the wings (Jane, Smith, Dagg, Even NMS was a FB) and lets be honest here the vast majority of the time it works and its working with Jordie too - just wish he kicked his goals a bit better last week!

I think we would be better off with Beauden at 10 right now, it does seem like a long term plane to get Richie up to speed at test level, its safe to say he hasn't really found his feet yet or shown the potential he obviously has with his Crusaders performances. I think DMac would even do a better job right now. But Richie hasn't been making bad mistakes and he has been defending well. The Wallabies did hammer him every chance they got and probably stepped over the line a few times and got away with it. AB's need to counter that tactic somehow but we do have a different Ref this week who would have watched that last game and hopefully will call for more discipline there.
 
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Jabby

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The All Blacks are clearly going for a gameplan on attack that revolves around 10 & 15 being interchangeable on the field and Jordie doesn't fit into that setup the way beauden and DMac do as guys equally skilled at 10 or 15. But Jordie is being picked at 14 on his form and ability.
I dont see any problem with that, Ive said it a million times, prety much since 2008 onwards the All Blacks have preferred Guys with the skillset of fullbacks on the wing over "specialist wingers" we've almost always had a fullback on one of the wings (Jane, Smith, Dagg, Even NMS was a FB) and lets be honest here the vast majority of the time it works and its working with Jordie too - just wish he kicked his goals a bit better last week!
from the comments im reading...you are in the minority with that opinion...although the coaches agree so who knows

I would say all the names you list performed better when given he chance than he has at 14, just because we've played so many 15's successfully at 14 doesn't mean all 15's can play test level 14
 

Larksea

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Jordie is well and truly a Utility back he has been used mostly at 15 by the canes for sure. The crazy thing is if you asked him what his preferred position was he would probably say 12. There is certainly nothing from last game or any game hes played at 14 to suggest he cant do it, I think he scored a hat trick and was MOTM for the AB's playing at 14? It really comes down to who plays at 14? Jordie or Sevu? You would have to say given form, kicking and his size advantage jordie gets the nod.

I'm quite happy to be in the minority when the majority are usually wrong. To be honest the "He's a 15 play him at 15" argument is pretty much meaningless today, I'd be happy with jordie, Beauden. DMac or Will Jordan on that right wing. They all have the skills to do it and wouldn't have to adjust much. The tactics and positional roles change for most players transitioning from their super side to test rugby. And its a massive bonus having a winger on the field that can cover fullback properly, where in a pinch pretty much anyone can cover wing well enough. We see halfbacks and midfielders covering the wing all the time in a pinch. Its not quite so simple when you need someone to cover 15. Remember when SBW was used on the wing and did just fine... You wouldn't put him at 15 though would you? Plus having Jordie at 14 allows him to cover 15 if Beauden goes up and it woundnt be a new thing to see Richie defending on the wing.

IMO a more interesting talking point is ALB at 13 and Jack at 12 (and not the other way around). I'd be interested in why the selectors have gone that way.
 

Larksea

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...yeah...that's why democracy never caught on
haha well democracy is a good example, because in most democratic systems the weak point is the people who are often ill informed, open to suggestion, tribalism, conspiracy and will often cast votes against their own best interests. I mean ffs look at America right now ;)
 

GoTheNaki

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The All Blacks are clearly going for a gameplan on attack that revolves around 10 & 15 being interchangeable on the field and Jordie doesn't fit into that setup the way beauden and DMac do as guys equally skilled at 10 or 15. But Jordie is being picked at 14 on his form and ability.
I dont see any problem with that, Ive said it a million times, pretty much since 2008 onwards the All Blacks have preferred Guys with the skillset of fullbacks on the wing over "specialist wingers" we've almost always had a fullback on one of the wings (Jane, Smith, Dagg, Even NMS was a FB) and lets be honest here the vast majority of the time it works and its working with Jordie too - just wish he kicked his goals a bit better last week!

I think we would be better off with Beauden at 10 right now, it does seem like a long term plane to get Richie up to speed at test level, its safe to say he hasn't really found his feet yet or shown the potential he obviously has with his Crusaders performances. I think DMac would even do a better job right now. But Richie hasn't been making bad mistakes and he has been defending well. The Wallabies did hammer him every chance they got and probably stepped over the line a few times and got away with it. AB's need to counter that tactic somehow but we do have a different Ref this week who would have watched that last game and hopefully will call for more discipline there.
All of those players are much more elusive runners than Jordie Barrett, even Will Jordan is better with ball in hand. We are absolutely stacked with world class wingers, let alone guys that could start on the wing because of their talent in other positions.

Beauden was by far and away the 2nd best 10 this season. It wasn't even close. If Mo'unga finds confidence that he had whilst playing with the Crusaders, he is the best 10 in the world, and would be in for worlds best player. He really was magic, and no-one likes South Island teams when you're in the North Island, lol. Every game was a big game, and MAN, in some of those games, he single-handedly pulled the Crusaders back into the game and won, it was nuts...

I agree with the dropping of Ioane, but I still think him and Goodhue, it has to be Ioane and someone... Is the best combination we have for now.
 

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IMO a more interesting talking point is ALB at 13 and Jack at 12 (and not the other way around). I'd be interested in why the selectors have gone that way.

I actually don't think that's a major and they'll probably swap spots throughout the game anyway. Will be interesting to watch.

Re: your other points - I do agree in the sense that back 3 players are pretty interchangeable in the current game. Not so much on anyone being able to cover wing at a pinch though. SBW was a one-off and the only time a halfback is out there is when there isnt anyone else. But I get your point - it's certainly the most manageable of all the backline spots.
 

Larksea

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Beauden was by far and away the 2nd best 10 this season. It wasn't even close. If Mo'unga finds confidence that he had whilst playing with the Crusaders, he is the best 10 in the world, and would be in for worlds best player.
yeah but the main point is that Richie hasn't found that form at test level yet in a way that Beaudy pretty much does most games.
It was clear the Wallabies targeted Richie with a ton of off the ball stuff last week to get to him and the ref allowed them to do it, it probably did have an impact on his game who knows how much... but they clearly see Richie as a weak point.

As Ive said in the past Jordies point of difference is hes so dam tall, hes faster than people think, strong in the contact and a great target for the wide kick pass. He's already shown he has the finishing ability, different in some ways to other options but by no means less effective.
 

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Jordie is well and truly a Utility back he has been used mostly at 15 by the canes for sure. The crazy thing is if you asked him what his preferred position was he would probably say 12. There is certainly nothing from last game or any game hes played at 14 to suggest he cant do it, I think he scored a hat trick and was MOTM for the AB's playing at 14? It really comes down to who plays at 14? Jordie or Sevu? You would have to say given form, kicking and his size advantage jordie gets the nod.

I'm quite happy to be in the minority when the majority are usually wrong. To be honest the "He's a 15 play him at 15" argument is pretty much meaningless today, I'd be happy with jordie, Beauden. DMac or Will Jordan on that right wing. They all have the skills to do it and wouldn't have to adjust much. The tactics and positional roles change for most players transitioning from their super side to test rugby. And its a massive bonus having a winger on the field that can cover fullback properly, where in a pinch pretty much anyone can cover wing well enough. We see halfbacks and midfielders covering the wing all the time in a pinch. Its not quite so simple when you need someone to cover 15. Remember when SBW was used on the wing and did just fine... You wouldn't put him at 15 though would you? Plus having Jordie at 14 allows him to cover 15 if Beauden goes up and it woundnt be a new thing to see Richie defending on the wing.

IMO a more interesting talking point is ALB at 13 and Jack at 12 (and not the other way around). I'd be interested in why the selectors have gone that way.
We all think we are 'right' lol Thats why ive liked this forum over the years have disagreed with other posters opinions but its made me look at things from thier Point of view(esp when stats,game results validate them).Hopefully Mo'unga sparks for this game but its good we have Mckenzie , Beauden to fall back on if he doesnt.Good to see Clarke,Vaa'i get a start and will be interesting if Aussie can overcome their Eden Park Hoodoo.
 

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i like pictures ;)

Best ten at 15, best fullback at 14, centres around the wrong way, second best 7 playing at eight where he's behind multiple players in that position, our depth being tested at lock...good team
IMO...

Best ten at 10, best fullback on the bench, both midfielders are predominantly 13s but would've thought ALB is a more suited 12 so somewhat agree.... although on the other hand Goodhue has been training and playing there much more recently. Best 7 is playing at 8. Best 8 is on the bench. Not to mention our best winger is gonna be in the stands...
 

Jabby

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IMO...

Best ten at 10, best fullback on the bench, both midfielders are predominantly 13s but would've thought ALB is a more suited 12 so somewhat agree.... although on the other hand Goodhue has been training and playing there much more recently. Best 7 is playing at 8. Best 8 is on the bench. Not to mention our best winger is gonna be in the stands...
so a bit messed up...just in a different way?
 

Caitlyn Jenner

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so a bit messed up...just in a different way?
Indeed. I'm not so opposed to playing people out of position though.... it's all about what's best for the team at the end of the day. Not to say I agree with all these decisions. But I don't think they are bad selections by any means and can definitely see the merit behind them.
 

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Well, what the coaching panel should do is finding the best people for each position rather than finding the best 15 players and trying to shoe them in all over the park.

I know it's only the second game, but Foster's tenure is clearly shaping up to be a rehashed Hansen later era (i.e. post-Lions tour - 2019), which is disappointing and disheartening, really. I genuinely believe that NZRU should have aimed at going forward, not backward in terms of appointing the new head coach.

It's truly a waste of talent to put people out of position just to accommodate everyone on the paddock.
 

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All Blacks will win by 10.
 
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A few, potentially significant changes for Australia. Fainga’a has been among their more consistent players for a while now and Paenga-Amosa and Uelese are pretty inexperienced. Concerns about the lineout could be why Hanigan has been selected ahead of Samu at 6, but IMO, he’s not good enough outside of the lineout to warrant being picked ahead of better players.
 

Umaga's Witness

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IMO...

Best ten at 10, best fullback on the bench, both midfielders are predominantly 13s but would've thought ALB is a more suited 12 so somewhat agree.... although on the other hand Goodhue has been training and playing there much more recently. Best 7 is playing at 8. Best 8 is on the bench. Not to mention our best winger is gonna be in the stands...
Who is the best winger?
A few, potentially significant changes for Australia. Fainga’a has been among their more consistent players for a while now and Paenga-Amosa and Uelese are pretty inexperienced. Concerns about the lineout could be why Hanigan has been selected ahead of Samu at 6, but IMO, he’s not good enough outside of the lineout to warrant being picked ahead of better players.
how disappointing for Lolesio not to make the 23 after sitting on the bench without coming in last week. I mean this is a first world elite sportsman problem, but that’s the ultimate jock tease.

Petaia could be dangerous off the bench.

The forwards changes are interesting, Rennie had emphasised the breakdown but I’m not sure the changes will improve things for them there.
 

BPM

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Exactly. I don’t know whether the changes are injury-enforced, if not they’re strange calls.

Hanigan is a decent lineout forward but not notably good at much else. Wright would have been a better compromise option IMO - decent in the lineout and much better than Hanigan at the breakdown and around the park in general.
 
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