Champions Cup Draw

[Tony Manx]

This very true but i have found a great little trip to Mallaig from Glasgow on an old steam train was in the Telegraph, quoted as one of the best train rides in the World and the Telegraph tells no porkies, will do for Mme's birthday its a big one this year of course you have guessed she is 30!!!!!!!x2 I also think it goes through the Malt country so i may be able to add to my collection of fine malts!!!!!!!!!! Toulouse is rubbish wanted Munster but Bath is good as both daughters live there. cheap accomadation what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let us hope for MMe's sake that the game in Glasgow does not fall in January then!!!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I highly doubt you'll beat us both ways.. just my opinion though, our young players are just getting better each season with the likes of Trimble finding form out of nowhere.

edit: in fact, out of interest, can you post what the best match 23 you think will be for the Tigers next season? Haven't seen their transfers.

ProbableLeicester team fully fit
1) Ayerza
2) Ghiraldini/Youngs
3) Cole
4) Parling
5) Slater
6) Croft
7) Salvi
8) Barbieri
9) Youngs
10) Burns/Williams
11) Morris
12) Allen
13) Manu
14) Goneva
15) Tait

16) Youngs/Ghiraldini
17) Rizzo
18) Mulipola
19) Kitchener
20) Mafi/Cranr/Gibson/Matera
21) Mele
22) Williams/Burns
23) Loamanu/Scully/Benjamin

 

[big ginger 8]

Morris ahead of Scully and Benjamin? Is that because of the game plan? Quite impressive from him. Pity for him that Ireland has so many wingers.

I'd back Ulster to do the job at home, they're very hard to beat at home and they've already had to play most of the year without Afoa also Stuart Olding. Hopefuly the games can live up to the excellent matches from the last time the two teams were paired.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I've got to say though, although I don't fully agree with this seeding system (Ulster and Clermont tier 3 and Toulouse tier 4 is ridiculous, 3 semi-finalists all in a single group, group 1 and 3 is also way out of proportion compared to group 5 and possibly group 2), it's going to make for a lot of incredible games next season.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Such an easy group can't see us not getting 6 bonus point wins

I think the groups will go like
1- Munster , Saracens/Clermont genuinely can not tell who will come 1st and 2nd but it's Europe and Munster so...
2-Leinster, Castres
3-Toulon, Leicester
4-Toulouse, Montpellier
5-Northampton, Racing Metro
If it's like last year with winners of the group and best runners up then these games between tigers/ulster sarries/Clermont for second place are going to be massive.

 

[munstermuffin]

Why are people upset with seeding? It's based on last year and fair in my eyes. Munster probably in 1 of tougher groups but if you wanna win it you gotta whoop some ass at some stage so why wait??? Bigger they are the better they fall

 

[Peat]

Right, cos basing it on last year's league form and ignoring all previous European competition makes sense.

Pig of a group. Would be some achievement for Ulster to make it through that.

 

[Tmartin995]

Such an easy group can't see us not getting 6 bonus point wins

I think the groups will go like
1- Munster , Saracens/Clermont genuinely can not tell who will come 1st and 2nd but it's Europe and Munster so...
2-Leinster, Castres
3-Toulon, Leicester
4-Toulouse, Montpellier
5-Northampton, Racing Metro
If it's like last year with winners of the group and best runners up then these games between tigers/ulster sarries/Clermont for second place are going to be massive.

I think the system is the 5 group winners plus the 3 best runners up. In that case most likely the second team in group 5 will go through as long as they don't split home and away with the 3rd place team as Trevisio are in that group. That leaves 2 best runners up from the other 4 groups. I reckon Scarlets will concede a few try bonus points, particularly away in their group, so I'd go with 2nd in group 3. As four the last one, it's anyone's guess. Sale will be strong at home in group 1 and may cause a shock or two, Wasps have made some quality signings and will be very competitive in group 2 and group 4 is wide open!

Can't wait to see it all unfold!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Morris ahead of Scully and Benjamin? Is that because of the game plan? Quite impressive from him. Pity for him that Ireland has so many wingers.

I'd back Ulster to do the job at home, they're very hard to beat at home and they've already had to play most of the year without Afoa also Stuart Olding. Hopefuly the games can live up to the excellent matches from the last time the two teams were paired.

Morris suits Tigers plan of a winger/Full back the best, and TBH his form since coming to Leicester has been great (Voted supporters player of the season last year I think), he struggled with injury last season and wasn't at his best at the start but imo he is a stronger slightly less skilful version of Murphy, has a big boot on him solid in defence, has an eye for the gap and a brilliant sense of awareness of the line and other players.

 

[munstermuffin]

Right, cos basing it on last year's league form and ignoring all previous European competition makes sense.

Pig of a group. Would be some achievement for Ulster to make it through that.

But your missing fact. No one has a previous experience in this. And why should someone who's done well few years ago get preference. I think this way is fair as it's better for teams like Glasgow. Simple but for all teams is if your good enough you'd qualify.

 

[j'nuh]

Ospreys avoided the group of death?

I don't even know what to believe any more.

 

[ajwffc]

This very true but i have found a great little trip to Mallaig from Glasgow on an old steam train was in the Telegraph, quoted as one of the best train rides in the World and the Telegraph tells no porkies, will do for Mme's birthday its a big one this year of course you have guessed she is 30!!!!!!!x2 I also think it goes through the Malt country so i may be able to add to my collection of fine malts!!!!!!!!!! Toulouse is rubbish wanted Munster but Bath is good as both daughters live there. cheap accomadation what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THe Jacobite. It runs from May to October and is runs form Fort William to Mallaig

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

But your missing fact. No one has a previous experience in this. And why should someone who's done well few years ago get preference. I think this way is fair as it's better for teams like Glasgow. Simple but for all teams is if your good enough you'd qualify.

If you're suggesting that how teams done in the HCUP has absolutely no bearing on how they will do here, then that's just stupid. It's still a European competition, we aren't playing a new sport, the format is just slightly different. So now Glasgow, who have done **** all in Europe and commit all their resources to the Rabo, are now tier 1. I don't agree with that.

To me the tiers should represent the quality of teams based on all performances over recent seasons. In that case, I don't think this is a good representation.

What do you regard the tiers for?

 

[gaston le gaff]

Sorry but i have to agree with Mon Muffin de Munster, this is a new competition the old H Cup is dead and buried its is no longer, this cup has gone to meet its maker etc. as was said previously if you want to qualify you kick ass from the start, and yes Saints got what looks like an easy ride but thats the luck of the draw, it could have been Ulster and then would you have complained i doubt it!!! I wanted Munster did not get it but that is not a problem.....This is what most European clubs wanted now lets see who is the best tough to qualify and probably even tougher to win the final a true comp, the only thing i disagree with is automatic qualification for some of the Rabo teams, God gives you lots!!! but not automatic qualification into a comp where you are going to fail miserably eg Trevise, Llanelli just to mention a couple.

 

[Feicarsinn]

The old seeding system was heavily criticized for how slow it was to react to changes in a side's strength. What bearing do 5 year old results have on your seeding now? The new system is more dynamic certainly, possible to too great an extent. However, it's a bit rich to complain about it only after you see the draw. If Ulster had gotten a nice draw then I'm sure we wouldn't be hearing a peep out of you guys

 

[munstermuffin]

If you're suggesting that how teams done in the HCUP has absolutely no bearing on how they will do here, then that's just stupid. It's still a European competition, we aren't playing a new sport, the format is just slightly different. So now Glasgow, who have done **** all in Europe and commit all their resources to the Rabo, are now tier 1. I don't agree with that.

To me the tiers should represent the quality of teams based on all performances over recent seasons. In that case, I don't think this is a good representation.

What do you regard the tiers for?

And teams like us in Ireland have to commit more to Rabo. Besides what team actually deserved a different ranking?
And how far you go back and you say it was still European competition well guess what so is the leagues. Should a team who had an easy group be better rewarded than a team with harder pools based on HEC.
As I said this is a fair way and teams know what they must do regards seeding now and any team wanting to win shouldn't care what group their in

 

[welshglory]

Totally agree about the new system being superior. Just look at the farce that has been Cardiff's and Biarritz's seedings since around 2008/9. Been crap in the pro 12/top 14 and the H cup but because they did well in the distant past they consistently get good seedings and pools.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Racing could probably not have hoped for a much better draw. They are on the up (seemingly) and the Saints and Ospreys are very good indeed but there are better- not that see Metro as favorites at this stage mind you.

Jeesh we have a lot of South Africans and it looks like I picked the right NH team as a 2nd team with Goosen and Claassen joining Kruger, Van der Merwe, Mujati (okay, so he is Zimbabwean if I claim Le Roux and Claassen), Le Roux and Cronje.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I never said the old seeding system was better, I think this is better too, however I still think it's not completely there yet if we're basing it 100% on league form. .
It's absolutely nothing to do with what my personal team got - because I could easily just say if we qualify there's more of a chance of getting an easier team in the knockout stages.

What teams do I think should change MM? Glasgow, Ulster, Toulouse, Clermont, Montpellier, Saints, Castres from what I've glanced at.

I'm only talking a change of 1 tier in most cases - I'm basing it on league and European form which in my opinion, should be how it's based.

Again I'm going to make the same point that I posted earlier and tell me what you disagree with:

To me the tiers should represent the quality of teams based on all performances (League + Europe) over recent seasons. In that case, I don't think this is as good a representation as it could be.

 

[j'nuh]

Why don't we just copy the IRB rankings? Make it so every competitive game played domestically or in Europe scores/loses a team points based on the number of points each team currently has. Form the tiers out of the rankings. Still not totally accurate, but may be the best we could do.