Classic South Africa

[tituslechmakus]

Here is my best Saffie team ever

1. Os du Randt
2. John Smit
3. CJ van der Linde
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield
6. Francois Pienaar
7. Schalk Burger
8. Juan Smith
9. Joost van der Westhuizen
10. Joel Stransky
11. Breyton Paulse
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. Bryan Habana
15. Percy Montgomery

16. Naka Drotske
17. Balie Swart
18. Mark Andrews
19. Andre Venter
20. Fourie du Preez
21. Morne Steyn
22. Ruan Pienaar
23. JP Pietersen

24. Janie du Plessis
25. Bismarck du Plessis
26. Frik du Preez
27. Garry Teichmann
28. Danie Gerber
29. Pieter Rossouw
30. Chester Williams

 

[Canuck]

My team

Springboks (keep in mind I haven't seen a few of these guys play, but they are legends of the game in SA)

1 Os du Randt
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Hannes Marais
4 Frik du Preez
5 Victor Matfield
6 Jan Ellis (wore #7 for the Boks but played openside with Piet Greyling playing blindside)
7 Andre Venter
8 Morne du Plessis
9 Joost van der Westhuizen
10 Naas Botha
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Danie Gerber
14 Carel du Plessis
15 Andre Joubert

16 Uli Schmidt (so hard for me to choose between Du Plessis, Schmidt and John Smit they are/were all so impactful on different Bok squads)
17 Tendai Mtawarira
18 Cobus Visagie
19 Mark Andrews (Bakkies Botha was also a great player but Andrews was versatile and could cover more positions)
20 Schalk Burger (by just a notch over Ruben Kruger and Juan Smith)
21 Fourie du Preez
22 Henry Honiball
23 Jaque Fourie (sublime at center but could also fill in at wing and even fullback)

 

[unrated]

My Classic XV
1.Os du Randt
2.Bismarck du Plessis
3. Ollie le roux
4.Bakkies Botha ( Ask me in two years and i will say etsebeth)
5.Victor Matfield (in two years my opinion migh Pieter steph du toit) be changed to p
6. Brussow ( please don't hate on me)
7. Schalk Burger
8. Gary teichmann
9. Danie Craven
10. Naas Botha
11. JP Pietersen
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Francois Steyn ( even though he currently has problems with saru i thnk he deserves this place for his raw talent)
14. Bryan Habana
15. Percy Montgomery

 

[tituslechmakus]

That's weird, none of you has given Francois Pienaar or Joel Stransky ... Even if they haven't have huge amount of caps or points for SA, they brought the Boks their first RWC ... And this kind of trophy is a major count to me to be a legendary player ! After all, they won to the ABs of Mehrtens & Lomu in final ! Even if they should not have been there ;-) (Benazzi had scored for France in semis but refused by the ref) !

 

[tituslechmakus]

My Classic XV
1.Os du Randt
2.Bismarck du Plessis
3. Ollie le roux
4.Bakkies Botha ( Ask me in two years and i will say etsebeth)
5.Victor Matfield (in two years my opinion migh Pieter steph du toit) be changed to p
6. Brussow ( please don't hate on me)
7. Schalk Burger
8. Gary teichmann
9. Danie Craven
10. Naas Botha
11. JP Pietersen
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Francois Steyn ( even though he currently has problems with saru i thnk he deserves this place for his raw talent)
14. Bryan Habana
15. Percy Montgomery

For both your second row, win the RWC first, then we will see if they deserve being there in 2 years !!!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My team

Springboks (keep in mind I haven't seen a few of these guys play, but they are legends of the game in SA)

1 Os du Randt
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Hannes Marais
4 Frik du Preez
5 Victor Matfield
6 Jan Ellis (wore #7 for the Boks but played openside with Piet Greyling playing blindside)
7 Andre Venter
8 Morne du Plessis
9 Joost van der Westhuizen
10 Naas Botha
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Danie Gerber
14 Carel du Plessis
15 Andre Joubert

16 Uli Schmidt (so hard for me to choose between Du Plessis, Schmidt and John Smit they are/were all so impactful on different Bok squads)
17 Tendai Mtawarira
18 Cobus Visagie
19 Mark Andrews (Bakkies Botha was also a great player but Andrews was versatile and could cover more positions)
20 Schalk Burger (by just a notch over Ruben Kruger and Juan Smith)
21 Fourie du Preez
22 Henry Honiball
23 Jaque Fourie (sublime at center but could also fill in at wing and even fullback)

I would go along with this. Of course there are a few where it's 50/50 for me as I am sure it was for you but I'd be happy with this as a solid attempt at that difficult (objectively impossible) balancing of weighing 'legend' vs actual ability.

-

As for Pienaar and Stransky. TBH as players they don't hold with a raft of others as for how much of an impact they could make in any given game. The RWC 1995 ***le was more due to others even if Stransky had a good day with the boot and Pienaar was captain. John Smit was (for most of his tenure) a very able hooker but again, not better than Schmidt or Du Plessis.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That's weird, none of you has given Francois Pienaar or Joel Stransky ... Even if they haven't have huge amount of caps or points for SA, they brought the Boks their first RWC ... And this kind of trophy is a major count to me to be a legendary player ! After all, they won to the ABs of Mehrtens & Lomu in final ! Even if they should not have been there ;-) (Benazzi had scored for France in semis but refused by the ref) !

Pienaar was a good captain, but not a great player. Stransky was a good fly half but not the best we ever had. At the time of the 1995 RWC, they played a role in us winning the trophy, but they weren't the standout players, apart from Stransky kicking over the goals.

My squad would look like this: and this is based on players that I have actually seen playing.

1. Os Du Randt
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. Richard Bands
4. Kobus Wiese
5. Victor Matfield
6. Ruben Kruger
7. Rassie Erasmus
8. Gary Teichman

9. Joost v/d Westhuizen - #J9
10. Naas Botha
11. Bryan Habana
12. Andre Snyman
13. Danie Gerber
14. Breyton Paulse
15. Andre Joubert

16. John Smit
17. Ollie Le Roux
18. Balie Swart
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Fourie Du Preez
22. Henry Honiball
23. Percy Montgomery

24. Uli Schmidt
25. Krynauw Otto
26. Joe Van Niekerk
27. Jean De Villiers
28. Carel Du Plessis
29. Jaque Fourie
30. Pieter Rossouw

 

[Geordie]

What about?:

James Small - world cup winning winger...but bit of an ar$e.
Chester Williams

 

[TRF_heineken]

What about?:

James Small - world cup winning winger...but bit of an ar$e.
Chester Williams

What about them??

 

[Geordie]

Would they ever come into the conversation of top boks ever? Or is that just laughable?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Would they ever come into the conversation of top boks ever? Or is that just laughable?

Both of them are wings. Both were part of the World Cup winning squad of 95. I can only think of one memorable moment for each of them, and both were during the 95 RWC:
Chester Williams - scored 4 tries against Samoa
James Small - Played against Lomu and prevented him from scoring a try in the Final.

That's it.

Look at Bryan Habana, He also scored 4 tries in a RWC against Samoa, but his accolades goes much further than just that. We has won several awards, has more than 100 test caps, holds the South African Record for most tries scored... the list goes on and on and on.

There are plenty other wingers who accomplished more than Williams and Small... I don't think they are worthy to be on this list of all time great SA players.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'd have Paulse ahead of either of those. If we are talking 'all time' then Du Plessis comes in and probably even more that were better players than either of Small or Williams.

Habana also scored a hattrick against NZ (in Baabaa colors it has to be said).

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'd have Paulse ahead of either of those. If we are talking 'all time' then Du Plessis comes in and probably even more that were better players than either of Small or Williams.

Habana also scored a hattrick against NZ (in Baabaa colors it has to be said).

I'd have Habana, Paulse, Pieter Rossouw, JPP, Carl Du Plessis ahead of both them. I see them in the same class as Dean Hall...

 

[Canuck]

That's weird, none of you has given Francois Pienaar or Joel Stransky ... Even if they haven't have huge amount of caps or points for SA, they brought the Boks their first RWC ... And this kind of trophy is a major count to me to be a legendary player !

Pienaar was a great player and an inspirational leader but IMO he wasn't even the best flanker on the SA side that won in 1995; that would be Ruben Kruger. If you're trying to measure overall popular impact in the sport then I can understand his inclusion but in terms of rugby ability I think there's been better Bok opensides over the years.

We haven't produced as many legendary 10s in recent memory as NZL but Botha is widely considered the cream of the crop. He is by far the best SA outside half I've ever seen and won SA Rugby Player of the Year four times!

In the next tier there is a group of guys who could all vie for #2 including Stransky, but also, Honiball, Butch James and in my opinion even Errol Tobias, who probably had a greater impact on the sport in SA than either Pienaar or Stransky.

I might get some flak for this but I also don't see the World Cup as being a major count for a legendary player. The World Cup is only every 4 years and SA has only competed in 5 of them, starting in 1995. All the greats before 1995 (including Ellis who I had instead of Pienaar and Botha who I had over Stransky) never had the opportunity to win a RWC.

 

[SimonG]

Ruan Pienaar and Joost Van Der Westhuizen would be my half back combination. Watched quite a but of Pienaar and the fella is just sublime...ridiculously underrated IMO.

 

[unrated]

Pienaar? maybe for ulster not for the springboks. was not too bad in super rugby for sharks but for the springboks? absolutely not. I would say he is our very own Wayne Rooney in the sense that he plays well for his club but when it comes to internationals , not that great.