[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Bada-Bing!]

The facial expressions on the professor were classic when being lectured by the Philosophy student. Definite future memes.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Other takeaways from QT and questions asked:

Two other audience members did ask him about Natural immunity, with one specifically asking him why a test has not been introduced so that she could find out her antibody levels from having recovered from Covid, but remains unvaccinated.

His response was you can't or they don't have, on a mass population basis, a measure for everyone's antibody level yet. Also they don't have know the precise unit of the level of antibodies required for protection and how long it would last.

Also quite interesting is that 95% of NHS staff are fully vaxxed but only 69% of black NHS staff currently are. Javid has now done away with mandation for NHS staff. But getting people into those communities and the messaging to get vaccinated is still vital to persuade them to get vaccinated.

And those who won't get vaccinated seem to be ignoring the principle of the duty "do no harm" to their patients.

 

[Which Tyler]

Also quite interesting is that 95% of NHS staff are fully vaxxed but only 69% of black NHS staff currently are. Javid has now done away with mandation for NHS staff. But getting people into those communities and the messaging to get vaccinated is still vital to persuade them to get vaccinated.

And those who won't get vaccinated seem to be ignoring the principle of the duty "do no harm" to their patients.

For me, the most interesting thing about the 95% figure, is that it hasn't changed at all since the mandate was annouced in... October?

As for the "Do no harm" - they're also forgetting that there was already a vaccine mandate to become a healthcare professional in the first places - the change was going to be the addition of Covid vaccination.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

AstraZeneca vaccine: Did nationalism spoil UK's 'gift to the world'?

How politics and national interests got in the way of ambitions for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

AstraZeneca vaccine: Did nationalism spoil UK's 'gift to the world'?

How politics and national interests got in the way of ambitions for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

www.bbc.co.uk

Seems so long ago all that controversy. The MS's governments were definitely to blame originally and just as the vaccines rep was recovering the AZ procurement ****** it.

Hadn't realised that had happened in India, it all seems like a massive series of unfortunate events since the above.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

To me the AZ jag was not the strongest from the outset and the research supporting it was either inconclusive or not communicated well. They said 1 dose efficacy of 90% but 2 dose dropped down to 60-68%. But hey wait, if we do 1.5 doses it'll be better, trust us, we'll do peer reviewed science later. Then later; let's mix it with other jags and it may be even better than just pure Moderna or pure Pfizer.

Bottom line is it didnt meet the international efficacy standards for Beta in SA, SA binned all their AZ and it was doomed from then on. UK media predictably blamed the EU for the bad press over clots, but countries like Korea took examined the evidence and took exactly the same sort of action. So did Sweden, where AZ is partially based.

Just look at the Tories and the BBC. They went from having nationalist fervour and Oxford tourettes, to calling it AZ, to simply refusing to mention it, to effectively eliminating AZ from the booster repertoire. Tells you everything you need to know.

AZ, Sputnik, J&J and Sinovac are all great achievements and it may help us in the future that they were devised with different methods. But Pfizer and Moderna were clearly the best available from the outset. I did end up changing my mind and accepting an AZ jag because the day before my jag a study did show some efficacy towards Delta, but I didnt appreciate the offer of 'AZ or nothing' and I'm glad that stance has disappeared for now. Many countries offered a choice of jags rather than dictating what you'd get regardless of you sharing the same reservations as Swedish and Korean medical expertise.

Hopefully AZ and others will have a role to play (if required) with future products against other variants.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think with the Oxford AZ vaccine the issue was that antibodies produced were shown to be initially lower than the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccines and this affected the initial efficacy results, but that's because it took slightly longer to produce the same level of antibodies than the mRNA vaccines. Also, there were studies showing AZ produced greater protection for the memory B and T cells, which form part of the immune system than even Pfizer and Moderna. https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...ed-to-mrna-vaccines-and-the-impact-on-risk-o/

Of course the whole clotting issue in younger patients/women didn't help and why other countries ditched it. And it was unfortunate that a vaccine which was initially sold at cost, stopped being used because of the clotting issue, when they found out why it was happening. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418123.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Covid: Self-isolation law could be scrapped in England this month

The rules are due to end in March - but that could be brought forward if "encouraging trends continue".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Which Tyler]

Covid: Self-isolation law could be scrapped in England this month

The rules are due to end in March - but that could be brought forward if "encouraging trends continue".

www.bbc.co.uk

Not me

 

[ncurd]

Supposedly caught SAGE completely off guard they've agreed to nothing.

All about operation save big dog which has been every COVID decision for 2 months now.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Covid: Self-isolation law could be scrapped in England this month

The rules are due to end in March - but that could be brought forward if "encouraging trends continue".

www.bbc.co.uk

Love to see it.

(ik some of you guys never want it to end so stay inside if you want)

 

[Which Tyler]

Supposedly caught SAGE completely off guard they've agreed to nothing.

All about operation save big dog which has been every COVID decision for 2 months now.

Not to mention whichever minister it was on the news this morning who was alerted that she'd tested positive, but decided to continue with her meeting.

Must have been an ally.


In other, other news....
Tory bots are still talking about "strong and stable" - I thought that was the school friend BJ knifed in the back?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

On a tangent but BBC mentioning a second winter (after 2017/18) where flu is estimated to have killed more than Covid this winter. I've never thought of getting the flu jag but am now concerned I am endangering elderly relatives if I don't get it. Hoping for some clarity next winter.

The forgotten flu epidemic of 1989

We go back into the BBC archive and look at the flu epidemic of 1989, and its impact on Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Reiser99]

On a tangent but BBC mentioning a second winter (after 2017/18) where flu is estimated to have killed more than Covid this winter. I've never thought of getting the flu jag but am now concerned I am endangering elderly relatives if I don't get it. Hoping for some clarity next winter.

The forgotten flu epidemic of 1989

We go back into the BBC archive and look at the flu epidemic of 1989, and its impact on Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk

While people should definitely consider getting the flu jab, picking a random year where the flu killed more people is not helpful and isn't a useful comparison at all. If in 2017/18 vaccines were mandatory, people were getting regularly tested, people with flu went into isolation and there were similar restrictions. Then the numbers would be comparable. Until the flu and covid are treated in the same way it's pointless to compare deaths.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Love to see it.

(ik some of you guys never want it to end so stay inside if you want)

Why would you want them to stay inside, when it's an airborne virus that's predominantly spread indoors?

Seriously, I want it to end but it's protective measures that are still needed to live with covid IMO. No one measure will stop this spreading. Self-isolation is just one measure. When it is no longer a legal requirement it doesn't change that infectious peeps should self-isolate but it will just be a social pressure to stay away. Like at work no one is going to thank or go near you if you start coughing or sneezing, regardless of whether it is Covid. Just be more acceptable to WFH.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

While people should definitely consider getting the flu jab, picking a random year where the flu killed more people is not helpful and isn't a useful comparison at all. If in 2017/18 vaccines were mandatory, people were getting regularly tested, people with flu went into isolation and there were similar restrictions. Then the numbers would be comparable. Until the flu and covid are treated in the same way it's pointless to compare deaths.

For those of us who are concerned about relatives and huge death toll that puts the NHS to breaking point (irrespective of what virus is responsible) then we'd really benefit from better information in winter. For example, would face coverings on public transport in flu months 'protect the NHS'? And most importantly to my mind, can you be asymptomatic with flu and still pass on a serious dose to a vulnerable person?

I take the point that they should hang fire on information until / if they are confident it's a particularly bad strain of flu.

 

[Reiser99]

For those of us who are concerned about relatives and huge death toll that puts the NHS to breaking point (irrespective of what virus is responsible) then we'd really benefit from better information in winter. For example, would face coverings on public transport in flu months 'protect the NHS'? And most importantly to my mind, can you be asymptomatic with flu and still pass on a serious dose to a vulnerable person?

I take the point that they should hang fire on information until / if they are confident it's a particularly bad strain of flu.

I don't disagree and certainly more awareness could be raised regarding the flu, especially after cases dropped during covid lockdowns. It shows that taking precautions could help save lives. However, any article that compares covid deaths with flu deaths is misleading and it should be highlighted. We already have too many public figures saying covid is just a bad flu or even the same as the flu and this is simply not true.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[ncurd]

Why would you want them to stay inside, when it's an airborne virus that's predominantly spread indoors?

Seriously, I want it to end but it's protective measures that are still needed to live with covid IMO. No one measure will stop this spreading. Self-isolation is just one measure. When it is no longer a legal requirement it doesn't change that infectious peeps should self-isolate but it will just be a social pressure to stay away. Like at work no one is going to thank or go near you if you start coughing or sneezing, regardless of whether it is Covid. Just be more acceptable to WFH.

Maybe this will lead to better sick leave laws that will stop discouraging sick employees to turning up to work? (I kid no Tory government is ever going to toughen up workers rights). Removal of the requirement to self isolate is less of an issue then but socially if you sick you shouldn't be visiting people but the rules had to come in because people don't.



This jokingly is my actual worry we've heard zero information from the scientists which suggest this a purely political decision as opposed to a health one.

Reality is things are looking good, just be nice to get some scientific confirmation, we just have to pray we don't get a stronger strain from mutation.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Maybe this will lead to better sick leave laws that will stop discouraging sick employees to turning up to work? (I kid no Tory government is ever going to toughen up workers rights). Removal of the requirement to self isolate is less of an issue then but socially if you sick you shouldn't be visiting people but the rules had to come in because people don't.



This jokingly is my actual worry we've heard zero information from the scientists which suggest this a purely political decision as opposed to a health one.

Reality is things are looking good, just be nice to get some scientific confirmation, we just have to pray we don't get a stronger strain from mutation.

In fairness, this was also the case pre Christmas but the gamble clearly paid off and sage were miles off yet again