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Do todays players juice up?

They don't use steroids. Not the majority anyway, and any stupid enough to do so get the bans they deserve.[/b]

I'll start off with an on-topic response.

I think we'd be naive to be believe that players aren't using steroids, HGH, ect. It's been proven time and again that players juice. That's a part of sport that will always be there, that urge to cheat to better your opponent. Now is it on the level of what baseball was a few years ago or what weight lifters and cyclists are doing? No, but I'd be willing to bet that a solid 10% are juicing, maybe more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("DC")</div>
I find it hard to believe that time in the gym decreases skill level. If anything it would make you better.. think it helps with your strength to brush off tackles, speed, and how you ruck, how it is detrimental to your playing ability you point it out to me.[/b]

Well, I guess it's a balance thing. If you're spending more time in the gym than you are on the practice field, than yes it will decrease your skill level. At the end of the day rugby is not like the o-line of a football team, you don't need to be just strong. Rugby takes a high level of skill and intelligence, far more than just being stronger than your opponent.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Ripper")</div>
The size difference I would say is due to genetics - generally they are stronger, bigger and faster than your average little pasty whiteboy Englishman.[/b]

Yeah, that comparison wasn't fair. Jerry Collins and Nonu are what I consider "genetic freaks". They are in the same boat as Vernon Davis of the San Fransisco 49er's. He's 6'5 250pounds and runs a 4.3 40 yard dash. That is just not right. God, if white people didn't get a nice advantage in life, I'd wish I were black.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("O'Rothlain")</div>
Let's just look at the pictures of the guys. Are they bigger? Yes. Are they Steroid Bigger? No. I played college football with some guys on steroids, and at my current gymn there are about 5-6 guys using steroids. The results are way different.[/b]

That's an uneducated statement. There are different forms of steroids that do different things to your body. Look at the likes of Marion Jones in track and Raphael Palmeiro in baseball. Neither of them are stalky or tanked, but both are steroid users. Different juice and different training regimes do different things to the body.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("DC")</div>
Usually they cut down on the time for recovery and leave you with less of a lactic acid pain loaded feeling the next day.[/b]

There is no conection between protein and lactic acid. Not even remotely close, I have no idea where you might have gotten that from. It doesn't even make any logical sense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Rugby Cymru")</div>
I am on DC's side here. DC may not be an adult yet, but it's proven that youngsters will benefit greatly from lifting weights (not excessively heavy ones, of course) and that it only helps with the growth process rather than stunting their growth as so many people believe. A kids growth is stunted only if they do heavy weights.[/b]

Yes, this is a very common misconception. There are many benefits of resistance training including stronger bones and increase in muscle strength. You also don't have to worry about an overload of muscle mass on joints because young boys do not produce enough testocerone to do so and girls hardly register it. There is only one potential problem with young children weight lifting and that is to make sure they don't do max lifts. It is possible for a young child to break their growth plates by lifting heavy weights excessively, which effectively stops their growth.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Rugby Cymru")</div>
If DC didn't take protein after his workout then his body would experience muscle breakdown. He's decided (and advisedly so) to work out in the gym, therefore his body needs replenishment...this comes in the form of protein shakes.
I mean, what happens to you if you don't eat? Your body goes for your reserves - it's a last resort, but it's willing to do so to survive. If DC didn't take a protein shake wtihin 20 mins after workout then he would most certainly have to eat very soon after, otherwise his whole gym session would have just gone to waste because the muscles need to repair and the body wouldn't be able to do so because it doens't have the nutrients with which to do so. The body uses protein fibres to repair and when it has been through a tough workout it will have already used up quite a bit of protein to help it, but post-work out it needs a boost of protein and this comes (quickly) in the form of whey protein.[/b]

That doesn't make sense, physiologically speaking.

Your body doesn't start eating muscle after a workout. It just doesn't happen. The only time your body starts eating itself is if you actually starve yourself for days. You can't replicate that unless you go out and run a marthon(which your body uses up all the carbs and fats leaving only protein left) or the Tour de France.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Rugby Cymru")</div>
I am quite passionate about the gym and all the benefits it has and how to make those benefits as effective as possible.
Both me and the boys in work wake up to a protein shake, then have breakfast. Have another protein shake at 11am. Lunch at 1pm. Potein shake 1hr/30mins prior to work out. Protein shake 20 mins after work out. Evening meal. Late night (carb free(healthy)) snack. Whey protein mixed with milk OR Casein protein right before bed.
This is a constant (and balanced) intake of protein, carbs and sugars designed to meet our training[/b]

There's nothing balanced about that and in fact is probably dangerous to your health. There is little to no need for for protein shakes at all as your body does not store protein. The average person requires .08 grams of protein per kg in their body. Someone who lifts often such as your self needs about 1-1.2grams/per kg and elite athletes such as marathon runners and body builders need a max of 1.7. Let's take DC for instance, I believe he's once mentioned that he is 165pounds. That's 75Kg's.

1.2*75kgs=90grams of protein required daily

That's the max amount protein his body can process. Now, from North American diet, he'll get that pretty fast. Especially because his mum is still feeding him. Let's say DC wakes up in the morning, scratches his balls, yawns and takes a ****. When he get's to the kitchen he toasts 2 slices of bread(6g), pours himself a glass of milk(9g) and finally spreads peanut butter on the bread(9g). He's already consumed 24g of protein and it's not even 9am. As the clock reaches noon hour DC pulls out a salami and bologne sandwich. Right there is bread(6g), salami(7g), bologne(7g) and 2 slices of cheese(6g). So he consumed 26g of protein for lunch with a running total of 60g. When he get's home from a nice session of getting baked as he likes to do from time to time he mum has cooked him a nice big spread. He's got nice big porkchop(34g), rice(2g) and some peas(4g). He just hit 100g of protein for the day. I swear I didn't actually mean for it to actually come to a flat total but I made my point. Just by eating right, he's consumed more protein than he requires and that's not even throwing in a musli bar or gatorade along the way. Protein shakes are only good as a supplement, meaning if you're just too poor to afford milk and meat products and you're soley eating pasta(as young ppl living by themselves are known to do). But as you'll find even one protein shake is more than enough protein to last you a day, let alone five.

Sugars are carbohydrates, just so you know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Rugby Cymru")</div>
Supplement does NOT = steroid-esque drug.[/b]

There is a reason why protein and creatine aren't banned by the IOC and I've said my reasons why. However, you are abusing protein and can cause serious harm to your liver.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("DC")</div>
Jonny wasnt injured because of training... hell his injuries are what, Neck, Knees? Thats not as a result of training though.

Studs catching and neck being pushed into a wrong position to create a injury arent exactly a result of training[/b]

Training may not directly cause an injury but the overuse and improper amounts of rest time could made his muscles more susceptible to injury. There is a balance that needs to be attained.

That's enough for now.
peanut butter is awesome. great post fcukernaut, but I think the amount of protein per kg of bodywieght vaires according to who you listen to. I for example have heard that with weight lifting i need to consume nearly 2g per kg of bodyweight from some people. I'd be curious to know howw you got your info? are you studying it? or do you have some sort of website that gives info on this?
peanut butter is awesome. great post fcukernaut, but I think the amount of protein per kg of bodywieght vaires according to who you listen to. I for example have heard that with weight lifting i need to consume nearly 2g per kg of bodyweight from some people. I'd be curious to know howw you got your info? are you studying it? or do you have some sort of website that gives info on this?

Well I'm studying exercise science at school and I plan on pursueing a bachlors in exercise science/kinesiology (whatever you call it in your part of the world). So that information is from the textbook, paraphrased of course as this is something I've really grasped and learned. It's great when you find something you like.
Yeah I agree with Canadian_Rugby_Guy - great post fcukernaut.

I see it all the time loads of kids sucking down protein shakes in a container and I just think that it is a waste of time.

The only time that most people really need to have protein shakes is when they don't have the time or are too lzy to have a decent after-gym meal.

Although the fact that DC is only having one a day it isn't really going to make too much of a difference. What will make a difference is that if he is lifting weights that are too heavy and not having enough of a rest for his body to recover. But from the sounds of it he isn't doing that so there isn't a problem.

Bokmagic said that it was better to lift heavy weights during the off season and that makes loads of sense. Working out when you are tired and sore and maybe too busy to eat as well as you should never works and it would be better to work on your skills during the season rather than your strength.

The pros do all of their strengthening up work mostly during the off-season.

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