Dream team

[UlsterRugby2012]

Dream Team

1: Cian Healy - Fast and agile for a prop, strong in defence
2: Keven Mealamu - World cup winner, captianed the All Blacks previously and a solid player
3: A.Jones - Huge player, lions tourist, solid scrummager + adds some weight to the pack
4: Alun Wyn Jones - Good pace and can use his strength well
5: Paul O'Connel - Leader on the pitch, good at set pieces
6: Stephen Ferris - Absolute animal, emmense strength and will make ground with every ball carry
7: Richie Mccaw - Leader, New Zealand talisman, work rate at the break down is amazing
8: Dusautoir - Great work rate, all round good player
9: Will Genia - Can get the ball out quickly, fast and accurate
10: Carter - What more can I say than this - brilliant
11: Shane Williams - amazing player with quick feet and awesome speed
12: Ma'a Nonu - A beast. Powerful and fast paced
13: Brian O'Driscoll - Rock solid in defence and attack, great leader
14: James O'Connor - Good kicker, feet and can play various other positions
15: Adam-Ashley Cooper - Another all round great player

I was told Dusautoir was a number 8? If not then I would probably put Jamie Heaslip or Kerian Read in!


p.s - How the hell do I create a profile picture, I'm new and I don't know how to

 

[Groundhog]

Go into settings and click edit avatar

 

[cyRil]

That welshman won 3 tests and drew the other in 1971..........and is perhaps the greatest rugby player of all time

I like this guy

 

[ranger]

The other thing about wingers' strike rates is it depends a lot on who's playing inside them. Considering some of the absolute crap Wales have served up, for Williams to reach where he did is astonishing. While I suspect that you could stick my grannies on the wings for New Zealand and one of them would probably get a try, and they're both dead.

I don't want to take away too much from the All Black wingers named, as they were fantastic players who saw off some very good players and would have got tries for anyone. But the interesting hypothetical is how many tries would Shane have scored for NZ, and how many would say Howlett have scored for Wales? We will of course never known and any argument would be very subjective, but its why I don't like relying on stats alone.

I guess another thing you have to weigh up is longevity of career. Shane Williams may have gotten more opportunities to score while on the field for NZ, but there is no way he would get as many games as he has with Wales.
Look a Joe Rokococo; amazing player, but always struggling to stay in the side and ultimately turfed out for good at 27... It all sort of evens out.

 

[nickdnz]

I guess another thing you have to weigh up is longevity of career. Shane Williams may have gotten more opportunities to score while on the field for NZ, but there is no way he would get as many games as he has with Wales.
Look a Joe Rokococo; amazing player, but always struggling to stay in the side and ultimately turfed out for good at 27... It all sort of evens out.

Just watched Clermont mutilate Aironi with Sivivatu scoring 3 tries in on the right wing. Couldn't help but feel a tad bitter, considering he took Rokocoko's left wing spot for the All Blacks and Rokocoko barely scored a try on the right wing.

I agree. The All Blacks churn out so many great players in the backline, that while they consistantly have some of the worlds best wingers they very rarely stay at the top for long. You mention Rokocoko, which is apt considering he is the All Blacks most capped winger with 68 test matches. Shane Williams has 87 test caps (for Wales+B&I Lions) Gareth Thomas has 100. The fact that Williams is playing international rugby till 34 is amazing considering as you say, Rokocoko is done at 27, Christian Cullen was done at 26, Jonah Lomu was done at 27.

 

[Gavin]

Just watched Clermont mutilate Aironi with Sivivatu scoring 3 tries in on the right wing. Couldn't help but feel a tad bitter, considering he took Rokocoko's left wing spot for the All Blacks and Rokocoko barely scored a try on the right wing.

I agree. The All Blacks churn out so many great players in the backline, that while they consistantly have some of the worlds best wingers they very rarely stay at the top for long. You mention Rokocoko, which is apt considering he is the All Blacks most capped winger with 68 test matches. Shane Williams has 87 test caps (for Wales+B&I Lions) Gareth Thomas has 100. The fact that Williams is playing international rugby till 34 is amazing considering as you say, Rokocoko is done at 27, Christian Cullen was done at 26, Jonah Lomu was done at 27.

Injures and ill health prevented Cullen and Lomu continuing into their 30's. Also New Zealand constantly churn our top quality wingers etc. which creates more competition for spaces, whereas other nations (like Wales) do not.

 

[nickdnz]

Injures and ill health prevented Cullen and Lomu continuing into their 30's. Also New Zealand constantly churn our top quality wingers etc. which creates more competition for spaces, whereas other nations (like Wales) do not.

Well, that's correct for Lomu but Cullen's knee injuries didn't prevent him from continuing with rugby. Yes he had a hellish run of injuries for Munster, but he was dropped from the All Blacks prior to that on account of form (which I suppose was brought on by his knee injury), however he then went on to have a brillaint season with the Hurricanes and Lions. He still could have played for another four years had his knee been looked after properly, but the drop for the 2003 RWC was really what seemed to make him want to go.

 

[Gavin]

I always though Cullen had struggled with the knee before the 2003 World Cup and this is why he missed out and went overseas, apologies for my lack of knowledge on that subject. Either way the only players who seem to play at a top level into their 30s have usually been injury free; O'Gara for example.

 

[psychic duck]

Joe Rokocoko is currently playing totally sh*t for Bayonne at the moment, as is Lauaki and Tialata, can see why the All Blacks stopped picking the three of them

Rico Gear was also flop with Worcester

it shows that when these wingers play for poor teams they aren't so much better than the rest of the world, in fact Miles Benjamin and Marcel Garvey did a better job in the same blunt attacking side than Gear did, and they probably both would have been considered as good as Gear was if they played for the Crusaders

it shows how good a winger is when they produce with poor attacking sides, Doug Howlett doesn't get too many chances created for him by Munster but he scores tries because he finishes pretty much any chance he gets, Timoci Matanavou got signed for Toulouse because he was playing immense in Pro D2 with a mid table side, Rupeni Caucaunibuca was leading try scorer with Agen one season despite them being a lower table side

 

[cyRil]

it shows that when these wingers play for poor teams they aren't so much better than the rest of the world, in fact Miles Benjamin and Marcel Garvey did a better job in the same blunt attacking side than Gear did, and they probably both would have been considered as good as Gear was if they played for the Crusaders

Conversely, Rico Gear was considered good enough to play for the Blues, Crusaders and NZ and was probably the best finisher in the world in 2005. I'd suggest Garvey and Benjamin have never (will probably never) be near that level.

 

[Darwin]

I always though Cullen had struggled with the knee before the 2003 World Cup and this is why he missed out and went overseas, apologies for my lack of knowledge on that subject. Either way the only players who seem to play at a top level into their 30s have usually been injury free; O'Gara for example.

You will find that many people would agree with this - unless they are a Wellington/Hurricanes supporters

There did seem to be some issues between Cullen and the then AB's coach John Mitchell which meant that no matter how well Cullen played he probably wouldn't have gone to the RWC, but in my opinion Cullen didn't really deserve to go to the RWC based on his form. Cullen was never the same player after his knee injury in 2001, as he lost his phenomenal acceleration. He played ok for the Hurricanes in 2003 - he did score a lot of tries which lead many people to suggest that he was 'back to his best'. However he scored these tries due to his exceptional support play (which still remained world class) but his general attacking and defensive game wasn't really at the same level as the likes of Leon MacDonald and Mils Muliaina. There was certainly a good case to select him over Ben Blair (and it was almost farcical that Atiga was selected over him when Blair was ruled out with injury!), but I personally would have preferred if they had selected another midfield back in the squad rather than either of them (e.g. Regan King or Sam Tuitupou).

 

[psychic duck]

You will find that many people would agree with this - unless they are a Wellington/Hurricanes supporters

There did seem to be some issues between Cullen and the then AB's coach John Mitchell which meant that no matter how well Cullen played he probably wouldn't have gone to the RWC, but in my opinion Cullen didn't really deserve to go to the RWC based on his form. Cullen was never the same player after his knee injury in 2001, as he lost his phenomenal acceleration. He played ok for the Hurricanes in 2003 - he did score a lot of tries which lead many people to suggest that he was 'back to his best'. However he scored these tries due to his exceptional support play (which still remained world class) but his general attacking and defensive game wasn't really at the same level as the likes of Leon MacDonald and Mils Muliaina. There was certainly a good case to select him over Ben Blair (and it was almost farcical that Atiga was selected over him when Blair was ruled out with injury!), but I personally would have preferred if they had selected another midfield back in the squad rather than either of them (e.g. Regan King or Sam Tuitupou).

Leon MacDonald played that World Cup at 13 after Umaga got injured, Mils Muliaina at 15, and Ben Blair was in the squad, who then got injured and was replaced by Ben Atiga, surely Mitchell selecting Blair and Atiga ahead of him was due to their mutual dislike, I heard Cullen had some choice words for Mitchell in his autobiography

 

[Larksea]

mostly kiwi players, because it's a personal thing I just prefer watching kiwis.
1, Toby Smith - I think he's going to be one of NZ's top props for a long time - huge prospect and I love the way he plays.
2, Andrew Hore - gotta love this guy.
3, Carl Hayman - I'm curious to see if he's still any good.
4, Brad Thorn
5, Anthony Boric - I think this has been NZ's best locking combo for the last few years I think it's a shame we have not seen it more often. The few chances they got as a combo they were very impressive.
6, Liam Messam - brilliant player hasn't been given a decent chance at test level or been rewarded for the good things he has done at test level. One of the rare players who are never injured even though they all game every week.
7, McCaw - I think the best all black of any era bar none. No one else can even really compare.
8, Kieran Read
9, francois hougaard
10, Stephen Donald - why the hell not. He repaid my years of faith many times over when he cut his whitebating holiday short to play a critical role in the all blacks world cup winning effort.
11, Ricahrd Kahui - as far as all round skill and ability goes IMO Kahui is up there with the likes of Dan carter and McCaw. Only the injuries he has had have prevented him from stamping his name on world rugby the same way McCaw and carter have IMO. Prob the best All Black back in the WC final.
12, SBW - everyone bags him but honestly I think he's a more solid all round player than Nonu and works much harder on defence IMO. At best it's a toss up between the two.
13, Tana Umaga - sure he's past it I guess but the few times we saw him in super rugby last year were enough to show that if he had the will he could still be the best around. Though I will always hold a grudge against him for not committing himself to NZ for the 2007 World cup when he retired at the end of 2005 - he would have surely still been the best 12 or 13 in the world at the 2007 world cup.
14, Cory Jane - I'm not a huge fan but he seems to come up with the goods when needed on a regular basis and as good or better than any in the world under the high ball.
15, Israel Dagg - the 15 jersey is his for the next 4-5 years for sure. Ability on attack that rivals Cullen and a very good kick.

 

[nickdnz]

Leon MacDonald played that World Cup at 13 after Umaga got injured, Mils Muliaina at 15, and Ben Blair was in the squad, who then got injured and was replaced by Ben Atiga, surely Mitchell selecting Blair and Atiga ahead of him was due to their mutual dislike, I heard Cullen had some choice words for Mitchell in his autobiography

It's Ben Atiga that annoys me. Ben Blair's form probably did warrent selection as a utility, but Ben Atiga had only really had a couple of NPC games and as we see now, the tornement probably hurt his career more than strengthened it. John Mitchell wanted a team of his own stars, which meant that Mehrtens and Cullen were dropped. While they probably weren't at their best, they still would have added invaluable experience and were still world class. Leon McDonald, Ben Atiga and Ben Blair were trialed in a Rugby World Cup, at the expense of long serving All Blacks legends.

Joe Rokocoko is currently playing totally sh*t for Bayonne at the moment, as is Lauaki and Tialata, can see why the All Blacks stopped picking the three of them

Rico Gear was also flop with Worcester

it shows that when these wingers play for poor teams they aren't so much better than the rest of the world, in fact Miles Benjamin and Marcel Garvey did a better job in the same blunt attacking side than Gear did, and they probably both would have been considered as good as Gear was if they played for the Crusaders

it shows how good a winger is when they produce with poor attacking sides, Doug Howlett doesn't get too many chances created for him by Munster but he scores tries because he finishes pretty much any chance he gets, Timoci Matanavou got signed for Toulouse because he was playing immense in Pro D2 with a mid table side, Rupeni Caucaunibuca was leading try scorer with Agen one season despite them being a lower table side

Everyone is playing total sh*t for Bayonne. That's why their second to last on the table. Heymans and Mike Phillips have been equally inept. The whole team is useless and struggling, not helped by firing yet another coach. it also doesn't help Rokocoko is playing on the right wing (which actually makes me hate Rokocoko, that he seems to think he can play well on the right despite scoring all his tries on the left wing)

Gear didn't shine much for Worcester, but he also seemed to get injured and Chris Latham didn't shine much either. Both were two of the best attacking players of the time and yet they didn't shine in dull NH football. It's strange that backs like Ben Blair, Scott Hamilton, Bruce Reihana have been some of the best outside backs in Europe when they've been decidedly average back in the SH. I think they just had skills which better suited the teams (reliability under the high ball, good kicking and good positioning. Seems it is too difficult to play running rugby with most of the teams. If Rokocoko was playing for Clermont, Toulouse, Northampton etc, I have no doubt he'd score more tries and been hailed as brilliant.

 

[Groundhog]

When I've seen him Rockocoko just doesn't seem to have anywhere near the pace he had....that or he is quite unfit

 

[Larksea]

yeah for sure Rokocoko isn't the same player now even though he's only like 28?

but at his peak he was an absolute freak and IMO was the closest thing to Lomu in terms of his impact on the game.

It does seem many but not all wingers peak very young, would have liked to see more of the smarter wingers that lost that cutting edge when they hit 25/26 to move to center or fullback

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

George North
Alesana Tuilagi
Vasily Artemiev
Bryan Habana
Quade Cooper
Maxime Medard
David Pocock
Imanol Harinordoquy
Thierry Dusautoir
Richie McCaw
Jacques Burger
Courtney Lawes
Brad Thorn
Rodrigo Roncero
Marco Bortolami

 

[Aedaphon]

George North
Alesana Tuilagi
Vasily Artemiev
Bryan Habana
Quade Cooper
Maxime Medard
David Pocock
Imanol Harinordoquy
Thierry Dusautoir
Richie McCaw
Jacques Burger
Courtney Lawes
Brad Thorn
Rodrigo Roncero
Marco Bortolami

4 Wingers
1 Fly half
1 Full Back
4 Flankers
3 Locks
1 prop

And you still missed Parisse... <_<

 

[ranger]

When I've seen him Rockocoko just doesn't seem to have anywhere near the pace he had....that or he is quite unfit

He used to get criticized for being a one trick pony with a low work rate, especially compared to Howlett. A few seasons ago he hit the gym like a demon and stacked muscle on, making him much more effective at the breakdown and turning him into the most powerful wingers in the country (he was beginning to master the lomu speedbump bunt). The added mass slowed him down though, and while he was a one trick pony, it was a great trick. Without the crazy speed he was just a hardworking power winger, which isn't what the selectors wanted.

Hes not unfit is what i'm saying, quite the opposite.

 

[Feicarsinn]

And still doesn't compare to Howlett...