England 2024/25

[Vieux Talonneur]

For the nearish future I'd be building toward:
9. Mitchell
10. F. Smith
11. Freeman
12. Dingwall/Ojomoh
13. Lawrence (whichever of Dingwall/Ojomoh doesn't start at 12 can play here until Lawrence is fit)
14. IFW
15. Furbank

21. JVP
22. M. Smith
23. Daly

Relatively inexperienced, but a lot to like there.

Like what I've seen from Ilione. Some unit. But I think I've only seen him from the bench so would be interested to see whether he can bring that intensity for 60 or 70 minutes.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Underhill is usually concussed and T Curry is probably going to have to retire within 2 years, so there's definitely an argument for blooding more flankers.

Not sure about that. B Curry now looks the part, Earl's a flanker really and the Pollock blooding is under way. Guess it depends what we want at 6 but despite what we saw this year I still suspect SB would prefer a bigger guy there - Chessum (who I suspect is Plan A if lock sorts itself out), CCS & Hill have all been in or around the team. All of those have longish term futures.

There's always room for someone to blast their way in. BIL means that we'll see some new faces, but I think the priority is more developing those we've already seen.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

In CCS and Hill we've theoretically got two 6s who could fill the coveted lock-at-6 gap left by Chessum and Lawes
Should be Hill starting for the summer, he's looked the business all season and without seeing the stats I've not noticed anything wrong with his defence (but then again I didn't notice anything wrong with it two seasons ago when he was comfortably the worst of any flank option)
CCS needs to get his head straight before I'd trust him as a starter - when he's on he's fantastic but he drifts out of games far too much to be a reliable operator in an international backrow


Is CCS even fit, actually? He's not played since the thrashing by Tigers - Kenningham has been at 6 for Quins ever since

 

[BPM]

I'm not sure whether CCS was dropped or whether he was unfit? England initially listed him as there for rehab so maybe he was injured?

Either way, he had a pretty underwhelming season for Quins.

It's an interesting conundrum because with Quins being deeply average right now and very leaky in defence, it's probably easier for flankers like Kenningham and Evans to shine as we need their industry and jackal threat. CCS makes some big hits but his work rate and nuisance factor doesn't compare to what Kenningham and Evans bring. If we were a better side, CCS' standout qualities would probably be given a better platform. Arguably the best players would shine regardless, but it's easy to forget how young he is.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm not sure whether CCS was dropped or whether he was unfit? England initially listed him as there for rehab so maybe he was injured?

Either way, he had a pretty underwhelming season for Quins.

It's an interesting conundrum because with Quins being deeply average right now and very leaky in defence, it's probably easier for flankers like Kenningham and Evans to shine as we need their industry and jackal threat. CCS makes some big hits but his work rate and nuisance factor doesn't compare to what Kenningham and Evans bring. If we were a better side, CCS' standout qualities would probably be given a better platform. Arguably the best players would shine regardless, but it's easy to forget how young he is.

Plus the balance thing is so important.

I've always seen him as more likely to end up at 8 and if you've got a couple of Duracell bunnies on the flanks - we have plenty - then you might want your 8 to be a bit more of a big moment player and few carry or hit harder than CCS. But he's never going to get within a million miles of T Curry in a stats battle and trying to turn him into that player will only compromise his power USPs.

 

[Geordie]

In CCS and Hill we've theoretically got two 6s who could fill the coveted lock-at-6 gap left by Chessum and Lawes
Should be Hill starting for the summer, he's looked the business all season and without seeing the stats I've not noticed anything wrong with his defence (but then again I didn't notice anything wrong with it two seasons ago when he was comfortably the worst of any flank option)
CCS needs to get his head straight before I'd trust him as a starter - when he's on he's fantastic but he drifts out of games far too much to be a reliable operator in an international backrow


Is CCS even fit, actually? He's not played since the thrashing by Tigers - Kenningham has been at 6 for Quins ever since

I agree....im a BIG fan of Kenningham and he could do that role on tour...but for this summer i would like to see them have a good look at Ted Hill in that 6 role. Perfect chance to really test him out once and for all.

Can he meet the required workrate at this level
Hes a good jumper, but where is he at this level as its a big step up.
Can we use him as the wider link man and defensive cover like Bath do, with his pace etc?

 

[Ddanno]

I agree....im a BIG fan of Kenningham and he could do that role on tour...but for this summer i would like to see them have a good look at Ted Hill in that 6 role. Perfect chance to really test him out once and for all.

Can he meet the required workrate at this level
Hes a good jumper, but where is he at this level as its a big step up.
Can we use him as the wider link man and defensive cover like Bath do, with his pace etc?

I wouldn't complain. I do think his pace gets a bit too much attention - it's nice to have but it's still about the 5th thing I'm after in a 6 after tackling, clearing out, being a ******* nuisance and grabbing the ball when it's available. Actually make it six things because setpieces. Luxury giraffe is back on the menu boys.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm so desperate to see CCS as Tigers 8 long term tbh

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I wouldn't complain. I do think his pace gets a bit too much attention - it's nice to have but it's still about the 5th thing I'm after in a 6 after tackling, clearing out, being a ******* nuisance and grabbing the ball when it's available. Actually make it six things because setpieces. Luxury giraffe is back on the menu boys.

Agreed - I am a fan, but his numbers aren't hugely impressive going either way

 

[Geordie]

I wouldn't complain. I do think his pace gets a bit too much attention - it's nice to have but it's still about the 5th thing I'm after in a 6 after tackling, clearing out, being a ******* nuisance and grabbing the ball when it's available. Actually make it six things because setpieces. Luxury giraffe is back on the menu boys.

Its about balance. Bath utilize it very well. England have the players do the same.

However, In all honesty i cant see Hill starting in the summer or ever. I think SB will continue with his 2 7's style for the moment, meaning i think they'll start Kenningham and Curry. At least we can see what Kenningham can bring to this level.

As said above i still wonder if Chessum is the real hope at 6. But for that we need a few more locks to free him up.

 

[Ddanno]

I prefer Chessum in the row personally, we're not lacking flankers and with Martin being a bit prone to breaking - plus how much steadier our lineout and scrum became when we got Ollie back in there - I think it's his best position.

Lewis C is due back next season right? Does anyone know how he's developing?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

it sounded like Lewis had a good season in Japan, played against some very big forwards.

Obviously earned a senior contract, a big preseason and I could see him being 4th choice (behind Martin, Ollie and Henderson who are all exceptional locks imo)

 

[BPM]

I'm so desperate to see CCS as Tigers 8 long term tbh

Apparently Ilione is also training at 8. Could be an interesting alternative to Cracknell.

 

[Geordie]

How tall is Illone?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

How tall is Illone?

Listed 6ft1-3 in different places. Imagine that means he is still growing tbh - he certainly looks bigger than 6ft1!

 

[Geordie]

Listed 6ft1-3 in different places. Imagine that means he is still growing tbh - he certainly looks bigger than 6ft1!

Yeah i think he looks taller than 6'1. And his arms are incredibly long. Hes clearly a very strong lad mind.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Listed 6ft1-3 in different places. Imagine that means he is still growing tbh - he certainly looks bigger than 6ft1!

Looking at him on the pitch I'd have said he was 6'4 or 6'5, but maybe that's his freakishly long arms casting some kind of optical illusion.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Looking at him on the pitch I'd have said he was 6'4 or 6'5, but maybe that's his freakishly long arms casting some kind of opticsl illusion.

Yeah I'd agree tbh - may well be that his official measurement jumps up soon!

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

6ft1 seems about right

 

[TRF_Olyy]

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