England 2024/25

[Saintjay]

The Sam Burgess experiment of forcing centres (players) through. At the expense of others went so well.

Why bother with the grief of bringing in new young players when you can try and force in a 28yo South African.

Stunning decision making by the RFU.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

They clearly don’t mind a lot of backlash to it then.

 

[Which Tyler]

TBF - U20s capturing players at all, was always wrong IMO.
And capturing only in certain circumstances was even more wrong.
The way WR went about removing that, was right IMO. Changing the rules AND applying the new ones retrospectively is never a good call.

BJVR should never play for England, and the RFU are making a howling error in asking for this.

 

[Ddanno]

Is that the real reason for them doing it? I've said it before (gosh, imagine me repeating myself), but if SA don't want him, why should we?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think under 20s should lock players in for life. If you don’t know what country you want to represent by then you e got issues.

 

[Ddanno]

I didn't know **** when I was under 20 and took the opportunities I could., when I could. It's an outdated rule to my mind. I'd be happy with binning it but wouldn't make it retrospective.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I didn't know **** when I was under 20 and took the opportunities I could., when I could. It's an outdated rule to my mind. I'd be happy with binning it but wouldn't make it retrospective.

You can drink, vote, marry and you know where you grew up and where you lived for 20 years but you couldn’t tell me what country you represent?

I don’t believe that for a second.

 

[Ddanno]

I didn't know **** when I was under 20 and took the opportunities I could., when I could. It's an outdated rule to my mind. I'd be happy with binning it but wouldn't make it retrospective.

 

[Reiser99]

My preference is u20's locks you in for a period of 3 years at least. That gives the country that's been predominantly developing you time to assess where you are at rather than having the race to the bottom like Scotland have started.

 

[BPM]

Yeah. That sounds sensible and genuinely, I think it’s also in the players’ best interests too. Some players are capped way too soon purely with the intention of locking them in.

Redpath is probably the one that got away from England’s POV, but at the point Scotland waved caps at him, he didn’t justify being picked for England.

More recently, Tshiunza and Hathaway were capped well before they were ready mostly because Wales knew they were eligible for England. I don’t think either would have been anywhere near an England squad (and I don’t feel either is a loss), but it’s he mentality behind it that bothers me.

I have ZERO interest in BJvR though. Not because, he’s not a good player who probably ought be playing test rugby, but because he’s not English and we’ve just seen Seb Atkinson and Ojomoh look like possible answers to a long term problem.

 

[BPM]

Apparently England have requested World Rugby change eligibility rules so that players locked by u20s caps no longer are

Where is this being reported BTW?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I saw it on Reddit, it's being reported by a journalist from South America,
They've got a list of the players that this would cover:

 

[Geordie]

Agree on all the above, bad move by the RFU if this is the case. I have no interest in seeing BJvR in an England shirt. Especially when we finally have some home grown prospects coming through

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

While I don't like the motivation here, I don't actually disagree with the principle. And WR is to blame for not enforcing consistency on capture sides.

Boks u20s were the capture side 2015-17. BJvR played 20 minutes in total in 2016 - captured.

In 2015-17 Tuipolotu played 14 times for Aus u20 - not captured. Subsequently invoked Scottish granny and now has 30 caps, is captain and a test lion.

Those were the rules in force at the time but it seems ridiculous to me that BJvR (albeit through residency) and others were denied the same opportunity that Tuipulotu had. Both BJvR and Tuipulotu came over here at age 24, so it’s not like one had been here for ever contributing to British rugby or immersed in the culture.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. But I do have a certain sympathy for BJvR and others….which is not the same as saying I want to see him in an England shirt. But if he becomes eligible under the rules and is our best option I’ll get over it.

 

[BPM]

Yes. I feel the same.

BJvR probably is the best 12 in the league and so by that reasoning would be the best available if he were to become eligible. However, Atkinson and Ojomoh are not far behind and have the potential to be as good, if not better. I wouldn’t like to see them lose out for a short term import we don’t absolutely need.

If he were a hooker it might be different mind you …

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Would rather they lock everyone else to their u20 side tbh

 

[Reiser99]

Would rather they lock everyone else to their u20 side tbh

They'd need to then change the u20 rules and some young players would miss out. Not many but some play for countries they aren't eligible for at full men's level. Dombrandt playing u20 for Wales while at uni springs to mind. However, I'm sure there are some from smaller nations who would then be denied high level rugby. Anyone got a number on it?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Can see Jordan starting at 12 for Bristol next year and SBs long lost hope for 12 is playing 13 for Bristol.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They'd need to then change the u20 rules and some young players would miss out. Not many but some play for countries they aren't eligible for at full men's level. Dombrandt playing u20 for Wales while at uni springs to mind. However, I'm sure there are some from smaller nations who would then be denied high level rugby. Anyone got a number on it?

International rugby is a privilege not a right

 

[BrokenWing]

International rugby is a privilege not a right

But it's evident a lot of players just see it as an additional revenue stream. And a lot of Unions are OK with that.