England 2024/25

[Which Tyler]

My preference is u20's locks you in for a period of 3 years at least. That gives the country that's been predominantly developing you time to assess where you are at rather than having the race to the bottom like Scotland have started.

That's fair

 

[Which Tyler]

They'd need to then change the u20 rules and some young players would miss out. Not many but some play for countries they aren't eligible for at full men's level. Dombrandt playing u20 for Wales while at uni springs to mind. However, I'm sure there are some from smaller nations who would then be denied high level rugby. Anyone got a number on it?

Yep, at U20s, you pretty much play for wherever you're situated at the time, with just the odd exception (Kpoku for England, as RFU are making massive overtures to make him feel loved; a few for Scotland and Wales where they're short on alternative options, and are desperate to make anyone feel Welsh/Scottish)

Martin Johnson played age-grade for New Zealand... because he was in New Zealand at the time - doesn't make him a kiwi, and had adult regulations applied, he simply wouldn't have played age-grade, and would have missed out on that coaching and development (no way would he be jetting back from NZ to Eng in order to play age-grade)

 

[higgik]

Yep, at U20s, you pretty much play for wherever you're situated at the time, with just the odd exception (Kpoku for England, as RFU are making massive overtures to make him feel loved; a few for Scotland and Wales where they're short on alternative options, and are desperate to make anyone feel Welsh/Scottish)

Martin Johnson played age-grade for New Zealand... because he was in New Zealand at the time - doesn't make him a kiwi, and had adult regulations applied, he simply wouldn't have played age-grade, and would have missed out on that coaching and development (no way would he be jetting back from NZ to Eng in order to play age-grade)

Johnson is different as his qualification for England was by birth.
Qualification should be
Birth, parents nationality only, residence for 5 years and been in country from under 18.

 

[Which Tyler]

Watching the U17s
gods that new England kit is terrible

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I echo what others have said. I think it you represent a country at u20, you are locked in with them but only for 4 years (one world cup cycle). After that time, normal eligibility rules apply as long as you haven't been capped by the national side.

Any second teams (ie Saxons) I'd then say don't lock players in.

 

[Jimbo]

I agree on Oghre's improvement. My only concern would be that he's a bit small. He punches above his weight at domestic level but I'm not sure he could do that at test level.

Blake and Jibulu are naturally bigger, heavier men who have a good blend of a solid set piece game and good work rate/skills in the loose.

I am interested to see if playing at Tigers can improve Blamire's lineout throwing. If Playing with a top class jumper like Chessum and being coached by Parling doesn't help, nothing will.

Think it depends on what type of hooked you want Sheehans not massive is he? Probably taller mind.

 

[BPM]

Oghre is genuinely small. Sheehan isn’t small at all?

 

[LIONSxv]

Think it depends on what type of hooked you want Sheehans not massive is he? Probably taller mind.

Sheehan has got be 6 2 and well over 17 stone.

 

[BPM]

I always take publishing height and weight with a bit of a pinch of salt but 6’3” and 17.5 stone is by no means small.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think ultimately if any player can perform the role they need to well, that sounds overide some numbers on a sheet.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think ultimately if any player can perform the role they need to well, that sounds overide some numbers on a sheet.

Agree with that but there are things we struggle to quantify as fans, like how good a hooker is in a scrum etc.

There is also the balance of the pack as well, maybe SB can’t afford to look at smaller more mobile hookers which is why Langdon is down the pecking order.

 

[Jimbo]

Sheehan has got be 6 2 and well over 17 stone.

From what I can see Langdon is 6ft and 16.12 stone, Sheehan 17.7 so yeah a bit of difference, is that really enough to determine one's too small and one's ok? Clearly there is more to it than that but simply bringing size into it bar relatively small margins doesn't seem like a great metric to me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think it's Oghre that's the one being called small

I didn't realise how small he was tbh, definitely punches above his weight

5ft8, 16st3

 

[Scotty]

Would rather they lock everyone else to their u20 side tbh

I dont think it should be a lock tbh, I think it should be a 5 year lock, you represent at 19/20 knowing you can only be capped by that country.

At 24/25 you've had 5 years to develop and if good enough you get capped and if not your free to play for whoever your eligible for. To me it seems like it takes away the need to cap to before they are ready/so they don't go to another nation yet allows them to make an informed decision further into their career.

Players at say 24 may be capped or may choose to wait for another nation but they are doing so with some experience under their belt. Maybe it stops residency permanently though.

 

[higgik]

I dont think it should be a lock tbh, I think it should be a 5 year lock, you represent at 19/20 knowing you can only be capped by that country.

At 24/25 you've had 5 years to develop and if good enough you get capped and if not your free to play for whoever your eligible for. To me it seems like it takes away the need to cap to before they are ready/so they don't go to another nation yet allows them to make an informed decision further into their career.

Players at say 24 may be capped or may choose to wait for another nation but they are doing so with some experience under their belt. Maybe it stops residency permanently though.

But eligibility should be
Birth
Parents nationality
Residence pre 21 years old, (for 5 years or more)

Residence after 21 should not count, or at least 7 years.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

But eligibility should be
Birth
Parents nationality
Residence pre 21 years old, (for 5 years or more)

Residence after 21 should not count, or at least 7 years.

Adding a citizenship requirement would reduce numbers as well. FIFA and the IOC both have that.

 

[higgik]

Adding a citizenship requirement would reduce numbers as well. FIFA and the IOC both have that.

Sorry, I assumed that this would be automatically a requirement.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Sorry, I assumed that this would be automatically a requirement.

It’s not. Aki and Lowe only recently got Irish citizenship

 

[Which Tyler]

It's not. Aki and Lowe only recently got Irish citizenship

And nor should it be - it's a stupid idea, however often it's suggested.

We all complain about inconsistent application of rules - why on earth would anyone want to introduce a new rule explicitly to make things inconsistent?

 

[Rinkadink]

I think it's Oghre that's the one being called small

I didn't realise how small he was tbh

England have him as 5'10/178cm

https://www.englandrugby.com/follow/england-men/senior-men/gabriel-oghre

2cm shorter but 2kgs heavier than Theo Dan according to stats on England website, and heavier than GOATs like Schalk Britz. I remember reading somewhere Beno Obano like 5'8 or something. Considering how powerful Oghre can be I don't think it's an issue. He could probably put on some more mass and not lose much of his footwork and ability to get low if required too.

As ever, just pick players if they're good enough IMO. Worry about physical attributes and team balance later.

Langdon and Oghre should both be rotating and getting international game time if you ask me. Oghre has the problem of playing for Bristol though. Eg; I wouldn't be surprised to see Malins getting talked about and called back up now he's moved to Sarries. Typical BS.