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England 2025/26

Yep. Some of these posters have the memory of a fish. Yeah sure Ford has not had the best few games to start the season but in the summer he was by far our form 10 and after the showing in Argentina absolutely deserves to start.

No problem at all with Ford, but you can't use the summer to justify - senior pro in team of kids vs learning experience with Lions. F Smith was the man in possession at the end of the 6N, and there’s no reason to change horses.
 
Don't get the complaining about Steward at 15, there's literally no one else unless you want Smith there who is just not a 15
He's also, bar one glaring weakness, seriously good. Incredible aerial game, decent distribution if not playmaking and his carrying isn't so much underrated as never mentioned on here - some of his scores would make an 8 proud.
 
Steward has had a weird career arc. He's gone from overrated to derided in the space of about 4yrs.

I think he's better than he's given credit for and I also like the fact that he's shown genuine signs of having developed his game.

Unfortunately, the 'glaring weakness' as @Duck a l'Orange tends to overshadow anything else.

Don't get me wrong, it is a legitimate concern but I also think it's somewhat over emphasised. If he's exposed in 1 on 1 scenarios, the opposition likely score. However, I'd argue that a side raining bombs on a 5'7" fly half being asked to play at 15 is a bigger problem that's also easier for the opposition to exploit more regularly than 1 on 1s.
 
No problem at all with Ford, but you can't use the summer to justify - senior pro in team of kids vs learning experience with Lions. F Smith was the man in possession at the end of the 6N, and there's no reason to change horses.
I've no issues wanting Fin Smith starting and your reasons are justified. However this "hoping Ford is no where near the team" or what does he have Smith doesn't is annoying imo.
 
I'm not totally sure that's fair.

Freeman, IFW and Roebuck arguably all deserve to start and Steward is the only specialist 15 in the squad (and in decent form too). Ford is the man in possession and led the side very well in Argentina.

Personally, I'd have gone with Fin Smith and Lawrence, but I don't think the rumoured lineup necessarily = a kick, kick and kick again gameplan.

We had Muir and Roebuck on the wings in Argentina and while there was definitely a good bit of aerial work, there was also plenty of good interplay in midfield.
I don't know, when the game opened up last time against Aus. They tore England to shreds. I just don't think Borthwick will want a repeat.

The biggest nightmare is an open field runner one v one against Steward. Kicking to compete for territory with Steward's skill in the air along with Freeman is definitely more Borthwick's style for this match i think
 
I wonder what match we will see Fin Smith at 12? Might he start there agaisnt Fiji ?
Oh great, shoehorning another player into a position he has never played

I can't wait for the Borthwick era to be over and the.... Wigglesworth?! era to begin

the movie drinking GIF
 
I don't know, when the game opened up last time against Aus. They tore England to shreds. I just don't think Borthwick will want a repeat.

The biggest nightmare is an open field runner one v one against Steward. Kicking to compete for territory with Steward's skill in the air along with Freeman is definitely more Borthwick's style for this match i think
Perhaps, but IIRC that game was also our first match after Felix Jones left and the defensive system was all over the place.

Our defence looked good in Argentina so I’m less concerned about that TBH.
 
Perhaps, but IIRC that game was also our first match after Felix Jones left and the defensive system was all over the place.

Our defence looked good in Argentina so I'm less concerned about that TBH.
And with effectively an A+ side. I still worry about Steward as the last defender though.
 
ETA & TL;DR: Steward is the best available individual at FB, but I'd rather have TdG trying to play like Furbank than Steward trying to play like Furbank.



I've no particular problem with Steward.
He may not the fleetest of foot, but that's only getting exposed when the defensive system has already been breached, so the problem is almost always from whoever left him that mess to try to tidy up.
Obviously, I'd prefer it if he were better able to tidy that mess, but still.

My problem with him is that he's such a different player to our first choice FB that he basically needs a different game plan, both in attack and defence - though if what tigers fans are telling me about his improved distribution is true, that's something he's working on, in attack at least.

If Furbank is our first choice starter, and he rightly is, then the backups need to be able to slot naturally into that game plan. Daly and Carpenter just about can, Malins or TdG definitely can, but at a lower quality* (and Malins is playing like shit this year). I just don't see Steward, Hendy or Hodge being able to do that without losing what brings them up to selectable in the first place, and would be worse at the required gameplan than GF/ED/JC/TdG/MM.

Also worth noting that that's me, and that there's more than 1 way to skin a cat**. I like to pick the best players (full 23 + ~4 for flexibility), in their best positions, and build a gameplan for them. Then fit in the best like-for-like when someone is unavailable. Others like alternatives who shake things up, or have the next best individual as next in line.


* Though I still think that TdG could get there with investment of time in camp and a double handful of caps.
** Though if anyone knows them, I want them evaluated for psychopathic tendencies.
 
An informed poster elsewhere had suggested the issue with Lawrence is his defence at 13. That most of his games for England have actually seen him playing more of the 12 role rather than 13. I cant confirm if this is legit or not, but i may be a reason they're still looking at the 13 spot.
 
Also worth noting that that's me, and that there's more than 1 way to skin a cat**. I like to pick the best players (full 23 + ~4 for flexibility), in their best positions, and build a gameplan for them. Then fit in the best like-for-like when someone is unavailable. Others like alternatives who shake things up, or have the next best individual as next in line.
What do you do with a Manu type situation where they excel but seam to be constantly injured? The gameplan is to use him when fit but the backups can't fit that hole at all.
 
An informed poster elsewhere had suggested the issue with Lawrence is his defence at 13. That most of his games for England have actually seen him playing more of the 12 role rather than 13. I cant confirm if this is legit or not, but i may be a reason they're still looking at the 13 spot.
England play him out of position, so he's fine-but-not-great for England =/= he's fine-but-not-great if played in his actual position.
What do you do with a Manu type situation where they excel but seam to be constantly injured? The gameplan is to use him when fit but the backups can't fit that hole at all.
Are we talking world class Manu? Or barely holding it together Manu?
Either way, were talking about a player with no like-for-like, so there is no suitable option to slot in. He's also unavailable more often than he is available, so you design your gameplan around someone else, and their backups.

You then start Manu when he is fit, and make some adjustments around him, but largely ask him to play like that someone else. Manu specifically was also a centre, and every centre needs an element of "straighten the line, run hard" to their game. Manu was a bilateral centre, so he slots into whichever position is used most for that, so it's tinkering at best.
But yes, you reach a point where the best player of bad fit is better than the lesser player of good fit (eg, I'd rather Steward tried to play like Furbank, than current Malins tried to).
 
England videos on Facebook only show Ford and Marcus at 10, which hopefully means it’s a trick and fin is starting 10 or England have injured him 😂

Also it’s nice to see Pollock burn Steward on the video to reinforce our belief about steward being slow.

Or maybe it’s just media clips and it means nothing.
 
ETA & TL;DR: Steward is the best available individual at FB, but I'd rather have TdG trying to play like Furbank than Steward trying to play like Furbank.



I've no particular problem with Steward.
He may not the fleetest of foot, but that's only getting exposed when the defensive system has already been breached, so the problem is almost always from whoever left him that mess to try to tidy up.
Obviously, I'd prefer it if he were better able to tidy that mess, but still.

My problem with him is that he's such a different player to our first choice FB that he basically needs a different game plan, both in attack and defence - though if what tigers fans are telling me about his improved distribution is true, that's something he's working on, in attack at least.

If Furbank is our first choice starter, and he rightly is, then the backups need to be able to slot naturally into that game plan. Daly and Carpenter just about can, Malins or TdG definitely can, but at a lower quality* (and Malins is playing like shit this year). I just don't see Steward, Hendy or Hodge being able to do that without losing what brings them up to selectable in the first place, and would be worse at the required gameplan than GF/ED/JC/TdG/MM.

Also worth noting that that's me, and that there's more than 1 way to skin a cat**. I like to pick the best players (full 23 + ~4 for flexibility), in their best positions, and build a gameplan for them. Then fit in the best like-for-like when someone is unavailable. Others like alternatives who shake things up, or have the next best individual as next in line.


* Though I still think that TdG could get there with investment of time in camp and a double handful of caps.
** Though if anyone knows them, I want them evaluated for psychopathic tendencies.
Yeah, I get the logic here and I’m surprised TdG hasn’t even had an A squad call up since the Barbarians COVID f**k up. He might not have a massive highlight reel, but he’s been consistently good for a while and weaker players have been included.
 
All players have their faults. Steward’s happens to be very visible and often leads to tries. Of every 10 he concedes one on one other players might stop 2 or 3 maximum, maybe it’s partly that when he is beaten his lack of agility and acceleration can make him look clumsy and stupid whereas a more agile player might bring a bit of uncertainty to the attacker and / or be able to recover for another bite at the tackle.

That said I’d expect a fast outside back with a bit of space to win a one on one virtually every time, but I guess we’re not expecting Steward to win any 50:50s as some others might. As @Which Tyler says a one on one means a failure elsewhere, but it is still a situation FBs have to face.

But it’s also clear that SB would prefer more of a Furbank type player at 15. I would love to see Steward trialled at 12 for Tigers though - less defensively exposed while still able to use all his strengths.
 
Yep. Some of these posters have the memory of a fish. Yeah sure Ford has not had the best few games to start the season but in the summer he was by far our form 10 and after the showing in Argentina absolutely deserves to start.

Now Freeman at 13 criticism I can agree with considering how world class Lawrence looks and Freeman is a world class winger right now.
I'd go
Mitchell
Fin
IFW
Ojomoh or Dingwall
Lawrence
Freeman
Steward(no idea who else to put there)

put back 3 cover on the bench and I have no issue with Lawrence moving to 12 and Freeman to 13 at 60 min. Lawrence is a 13 but he is still a good 12. Same as Freeman is a great winger but still a good 13. Lawrence Freeman could be a strong partnership for the last 20 with alot of threat ball in hand.

Not calling for this as a start nor do I want
Freeman starting at 13(baring injury to others) should not br done until he has had a successful run of games their.


On another point Caluori he has immense potential especially scaring teams having to cover an crossfire or up and under alot harder all game. Creates space and uncertainty in a defence(see sale when it was used right)...but he is 19 and had 2 games 1 bad(although his ankle was strapped i noticed?not sure if during or before the second game).

Borthwick doesn't play his way he plays to counter others it seems. So having an Freeman IFW and Roebuck to rely on and also having a Caluori to counter a smaller winger and an Arundell to counter a slower winger. You eventually have 5 solid back wing options with so many things for the opposition to prepare for.
 
How accurate are these leaks anyway? The article yesterday specifically said 'Early signs pointing to …’. In other words - speculation.
 

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