England 2025/26

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

What does home advantage and playing at altitude equate in points?

As when Borthwick just took over we lost to the boks by 1 point. So three years later of pure Borthwick coaching what does the altitude and home advantage bring. Becuase if we lose by a great margin than 1 point (plus home/ altitude points), then we can quit happily say that Borthwick has not improved the team on the last three years.

It can be a nice little metric as none of the record defeats seem to mean much to anyone in power so what does it take to get a decent coach in?

 

[BrokenWing]

How many of the books play at altitude week in week out?

If they don’t regularly do it I think the effect can be discounted.

 

[Geordie]

I missed this from the France S14 final....

7 Jack Willis (c): Utterly magnificent, to the point where it is slightly depressing that we’re not seeing him in Test rugby. The RFU surely have to change the laws as at this point it is hurting Steve Borthwick and England. Their breakdown work has not been up to scratch for the past couple of years and Willis will bring about a huge improvement in that area. He made four turnovers in the French showpiece event, including a couple which were absolutely vital as Montpellier pressurised inside the Toulouse 22. 10

 

[Quel Carreleur]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...ones-dramatic-england-exit-springboks-return/
https://archive.is/G9ENs

Story behind Felix Jones’ turbulent spell with England and his Boks reunion ​

Steve Borthwick’s ‘inflexibility’ cited as one of the reasons for exit of defence coach who is now plotting former team’s downfall
...
“Steve was very inflexible and didn’t really like people challenging him,” a source said. “It became, ‘You are in charge of defence. Stick to your lane’. Felix’s argument is that defence does not operate in a silo. It has to be connected to the set-piece, it has to be connected to your kicking game and your attacking game.”
...
“Felix operates a holistic view and was trying to implement a very aggressive defence and he was prevented from giving to input to certain players,” a source said. “He was told, ‘You can’t talk to these players because they are not part of your group’. Felix protested but was told this is the way it is. That’s not how Felix operates. He found it impossible to prepare the team on that basis because I was being blocked from speaking to players.”
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES...


Not that I needed any more ammunition, but Borthwick Out

 

[Geordie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...ones-dramatic-england-exit-springboks-return/
https://archive.is/G9ENs

Story behind Felix Jones’ turbulent spell with England and his Boks reunion ​

Steve Borthwick’s ‘inflexibility’ cited as one of the reasons for exit of defence coach who is now plotting former team’s downfall
...
“Steve was very inflexible and didn’t really like people challenging him,” a source said. “It became, ‘You are in charge of defence. Stick to your lane’. Felix’s argument is that defence does not operate in a silo. It has to be connected to the set-piece, it has to be connected to your kicking game and your attacking game.”
...
“Felix operates a holistic view and was trying to implement a very aggressive defence and he was prevented from giving to input to certain players,” a source said. “He was told, ‘You can’t talk to these players because they are not part of your group’. Felix protested but was told this is the way it is. That’s not how Felix operates. He found it impossible to prepare the team on that basis because I was being blocked from speaking to players.”
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES...


Not that I needed any more ammunition, but Borthwick Out

Yeah i was just about to post this.

I think its pretty damning really, even though we knew this was the case.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not that I needed any more ammunition, but Borthwick Out

Really is a damning article, isn't it?

It is telling that Borthwick moved to replace Jones with Joe El-Abd, who was not a specialist defence coach but someone he trusted completely as former flatmates. El-Abd’s role has subsequently been reshuffled within the coaching set-up.

If you don't laugh you'll cry

 

[Geordie]

Really is a damning article, isn't it?


If you don't laugh you'll cry

Whats the chances he has a bad tournament and he is gone? Probably not much.

But who would take over...Blackett?

Probably Wigglesworth.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Probably Wigglesworth.

You can go off people, you know!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Whats the chances he has a bad tournament and he is gone? Probably not much.

But who would take over...Blackett?

Probably Wigglesworth.

Yeah, can't see him going until after the WC at a minimum - too much money (can't remember how long his contract actually is - but if it's longer than this RWC I imagine there's some sort of break clause after the RWC built in anyway)

It would definitely be Wigglesworth, but it should be Mitchell if they're picking from within the RFU structure (even if I wouldn't like to harm the Women's side)

Blackett probably looking for the exit, can imagine he's feeling the same as F.Jones is in the article above - brought in and not allowed to do his job

 

[Geordie]

Yeah, can't see him going until after the WC at a minimum - too much money (can't remember how long his contract actually is - but if it's longer than this RWC I imagine there's some sort of break clause after the RWC built in anyway)

It would definitely be Wigglesworth, but it should be Mitchell if they're picking from within the RFU structure (even if I wouldn't like to harm the Women's side)

Blackett probably looking for the exit, can imagine he's feeling the same as F.Jones is in the article above - brought in and not allowed to do his job

Surely theres a performance clause aswell. Hes broken every "bad" record going and we "could" actually go through this next 3 games with 3 defeats. Surely that would be the end.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Blackett probably looking for the exit, can imagine he's feeling the same as F.Jones is in the article above - brought in and not allowed to do his job

Bath have been keeping his seat warm...

 

[Saintjay]

1) I trust my flat mate he didn't still my milk out the fridge.

Or

2) I trust as a world class defence coach.

Borth chooses option 1.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It actually makes me sad to think that we could have the best rugby set up in the world but we are stuck with Borthwick who continues to break the wrong kind of records.

I really hope the RFU get involved after the failure of the next few games and brings in another coach as a head coach type role and moves Borthwick to ladies rugby (surely he can’t be bad at that) or something else.

 

[ChicagoKid]

It actually makes me sad to think that we could have the best rugby set up in the world but we are stuck with Borthwick who continues to break the wrong kind of records.

I really hope the RFU get involved after the failure of the next few games and brings in another coach as a head coach type role and moves Borthwick to ladies rugby (surely he can’t be bad at that) or something else.

I posted back in 2020 why England hasn’t done better considering all their resources. This is the dysfunction summed up well.

Even still, I could see them making the finals again in 2027.

 

[Geordie]

Im trying to work it out....is this the correct number of coaches that have been involved (some still are) under SB's reign

Nick Evans - Attack Coach
Wigglesworth - Attack coach to Senior Assistant & Defence
Blackett - Attack
Aled Walters - S&C
Felix Jones - Defence Coach
Sinfield - Defence coach to Skills and Kicking Coach
Joe El Abd - Defence
Mcguigan - Collision and Back Three Coach
Strawbridge - Skills Advisor
Harrison - Scrum Coach (The only steady one)
Dan Tobin (S&C)
Phil Morrow (Team Performance)
Tom Tombleson (S&C)

13 coaches in 4 years?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think was Cockerill initially involved as well?

Edit: yup forwards coach for the 2023 Six Nations

 

[Saintjay]

Im trying to work it out....is this the correct number of coaches that have been involved (some still are) under SB's reign

Nick Evans - Attack Coach
Wigglesworth - Attack coach to Senior Assistant & Defence
Blackett - Attack
Aled Walters - S&C
Felix Jones - Defence Coach
Sinfield - Defence coach to Skills and Kicking Coach
Joe El Abd - Defence
Mcguigan - Collision and Back Three Coach
Strawbridge - Skills Advisor
Harrison - Scrum Coach (The only steady one)
Dan Tobin (S&C)
Phil Morrow (Team Performance)
Tom Tombleson (S&C)

13 coaches in 4 years?

You missed putting **Wigglesworth** next to every role. Apart from that good skills.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I propose Wigglesworth is the new Ewels
Wigglesworth

 

[Geordie]

I think was Cockerill initially involved as well?

Edit: yup forwards coach for the 2023 Six Nations

Forgot about him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I still stand that I reckon Wigglesworth is a good coach who is hampered by his loyalty to Borthwick
Dude had a really good breif stint at Tigers head coach role and was picked by Farrell for the lions for a reason.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

This isn’t a joke but hasn’t Wigglesworth made every area he’s moved to coach worse? It certainly feels that way

 

[Brown Bottle]

Nick Evans was always a temporary appointment.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

This isn’t a joke but hasn’t Wigglesworth made every area he’s moved to coach worse? It certainly feels that way

But is that down to Wigglesworth or Borthwick. If the Felix Jone thing is true, it doesn't sound like Borthwick gives his coaches much to work with.

Losing Walters and Jones was mental, though
Both World cup winners, Walters even worked with him at Leicester and still left, both of them are two World cup winning coaches and both clearly didn't feel Borthwick was taking them to the right direction. The fact Walters went to Ireland makes it evemn worse.

But we all knew this about Borthwick, regardless who the assistant coaches are, things won't really change. He either focuses all on attack or all on defence, he rarely does both, which is what the players complained about a few years ago that they never did attack coaching

I do think the whole coaching staff needs a clear out (Bar Blackett)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I said it before but Wigglesworth never should have left Tigers, should've stayed there as HC for a world cup cycle and then pushed for the England role with a whole load of experience of his own under his belt instead of just being SB's lackey and ruining every department he touches

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But is that down to Wigglesworth or Borthwick. If the Felix Jone thing is true, it doesn't sound like Borthwick gives his coaches much to work with.

Losing Walters and Jones was mental, though
Both World cup winners, Walters even worked with him at Leicester and still left, both of them are two World cup winning coaches and both clearly didn't feel Borthwick was taking them to the right direction. The fact Walters went to Ireland makes it evemn worse.

But we all knew this about Borthwick, regardless who the assistant coaches are, things won't really change. He either focuses all on attack or all on defence, he rarely does both, which is what the players complained about a few years ago that they never did attack coaching

I do think the whole coaching staff needs a clear out (Bar Blackett)

His attitude is probably how he survived Jones, having a narrow and very specific area of focus and operating in a rigid system.

Ultimately as you say, the assistants we have had are world cup winning coaches, Borthwick hasn't even won a 6N.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Eddie Jones can F right off

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Unless Jack Willis can play 12 he wouldn’t make too much of a difference anyhow. Tom could just becuase of his style but Borthwick didn’t like it anyhow so even if both were available would he even select them.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Didn't Tom start the last 6-8 matches he was available for?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't Tom start the last 6-8 matches he was available for?

And got a central contract to boot, too