England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

[TRF_Olyy]

Pick a beast at 6, then.
We're picking a "workrate" 6 and are then too scared to pick a light weight 7, so pick another "workrate" 6 at 7 in the hope that, combined, they can get the job done.
Pick someone like Ewers at 6, for the big hits and big carries, have someone like Kvesic at 7 for everything else.

I'm over simplifying it massively but do I feel like at least part of our reluctance to pick a 7 stems from what we're picking at 6.

 

[Wendigo7]

Well, don't know about you lads but I was quietly quite pleased with that.

Lots to work on and 10 man rugby it is going to be for a while, but if that's the standard bearer going forward, it's a nice start.

Lineout was quick and clean, rucking was decent, slowing oppo ball down and defence suffocating. Don't want and expect many changes for next week except I reckon Itoje and Daly will play and Clifford will start.

How refreshing to not see premeditated subs? It had a positive effect and it was great to see some common sense applied.

 

[ratsapprentice]

"We control our own destiny," he said. "We want to go out there and smack Italy. I have told the boys already that that is our aim – to go out there and give them a good hiding."

Interesting.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Interesting.

Certainly a different tone to Lancaster... To be fair though, much as everyone says Italy will be hard it is widely accepted that only Scotland really cares about if they beat Italy, everyone else cares by how much and most go out with the assumption that the Italy game is where you pad out your points difference. Considering we have lost on points difference the last 3 years...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Be interesting to see his selection, then.
I'm fully expecting almost the exact same 23 from the Scotland game, in which case he's talking out his whispering eye.

 

[Peat]

We need another carrier before we need a flash new 7. Mako should start and Itojie or Lawes put on the blindside. We cannot expect Billy to do it all.

We need another two carriers, an openside, and another player somewhere who can really blast a ruck free - minimum - if we have any real aspirations towards playing a strong ball in hand attacking game. I would personally rather feed through as many of them as we can find as quickly as possible.

None of those punks are getting in a world XV. Maybe two of them might start for the Lions? The pack's not good enough. It doesn't carry well enough, it doesn't ruck well enough. Both issues need addressing.

 

[Amiga500]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35518596

This is more like it.

England head coach Edward "Eddie" Jones wants his new side to maintain their early Six Nations momentum by giving Italy "a good hiding" next weekend.

"We control our own destiny. We want to go there and smack Italy," said Mr Jones.

Lancaster would never have uttered such (arrogant) words.

The spirit of Woodward and Johnston lives on!!! and I will love hating England once again :lol:

 

[Every Time Ref]

We need another two carriers, an openside, and another player somewhere who can really blast a ruck free - minimum - if we have any real aspirations towards playing a strong ball in hand attacking game. I would personally rather feed through as many of them as we can find as quickly as possible.

None of those punks are getting in a world XV. Maybe two of them might start for the Lions? The pack's not good enough. It doesn't carry well enough, it doesn't ruck well enough. Both issues need addressing.

More carriers is a massive need. As is big, powerful, dynamic breakdown-hitters - not "breakdown specialists" in the since of a turnover specialist, but someone with the physique and ability to hit attacking breakdowns hard, blast out the opposition and create quick ball. I would argue that often the same player fulfils both carrying and ruck-smashing roles (Ewers being an example) - a big, dynamic guy with explosive power and good body position is likely to excel both in hitting contact and in hitting rucks. Ewers I already mentioned, Clifford probably fits that mould, sure there are others I'm forgetting. Haskell and Robshaw simply don't.

Another issue we clearly still have, and which I don't think will be fixed quickly but needs to be looked at, is our kick chase, and skills in the air. Not so much fielding opposition kicks (we are passable there I suppose), but chasing and recovering a garryowen. Honestly, we are embarrassingly poor at this. With the honourable exception of Mike Brown, there is not a single player I would back to regather a well-weighted up and under even once a game - half the time, in fact, we don't even seem to have a chaser, and much of the other half they mistime the chase and don't go up to challenge. It's a key weapon and we just straight up suck at it across the board.

FWIW, in my view Roko is the answer.

 

[ncurd]

FWIW, in my view Roko is the answer.

I was reading your post and was thinking well Roko is good at that stuff....

I think we did alright under this situation although I think we kicked way too often, JJ is great at creating breaks give him a chance to actually do so. We shouldn't shelve the Gary Owen but we need it to be part of repertoire of attacking moves rather than what felt like the only one.

However on the same front our restarts are still bloody poor I've no idea what England have been trying accomplish there for a fair amount of time now.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Nothing wrong with kicking a lot, NZ do it all the time, the problem is aimless kicks. We do an up and under kick with nobody chasing, a back 3 catches the ball and then has all the time to wallop it back at us for net gain or do a proper up and under, putting us under pressure. The level of aimless kicking needs to stop, either we kick to touch, kick to a big empty space of kick with a chase. 90% of the time we are doing none of those and just throwing away possession.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Nothing wrong with kicking a lot, NZ do it all the time, the problem is aimless kicks. We do an up and under kick with nobody chasing, a back 3 catches the ball and then has all the time to wallop it back at us for net gain or do a proper up and under, putting us under pressure. The level of aimless kicking needs to stop, either we kick to touch, kick to a big empty space of kick with a chase. 90% of the time we are doing none of those and just throwing away possession.

This is exactly my point.

Neither Ford nor Farrell are great tactical kickers, but both could be helped out by a better chase. Catching/regathering is a core skill, so not something that can be coached at international level, but the kick chase itself is tactical, so 100% within the remit fo the England coaching team (as is selection of players who have the skills, of course). I hope they'll be looking at the kick chase as an area of priority over the next few weeks.

I was reading your post and was thinking well Roko is good at that stuff.....

So's Banahan. Might be taking the Bath love a bit far to suggest him for England though!

 

[yaboyjj]

Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks),

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Elliot Daly (Wasps).

Kvesic to finally get his big break? (ditto Itoje/Daly/Beaumont)

 

[Wendigo7]

Yes please.... Please?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm witholding my excitement until they announce which 23 will kept - still four to be dropped.

I'm surprised at no Brookes - Cole didn't cover himself in glory and Hill wasn't trusted vs Scotland.

 

[yaboyjj]

I'm witholding my excitement until they announce which 23 will kept - still four to be dropped.

I'm surprised at no Brookes - Cole didn't cover himself in glory and Hill wasn't trusted vs Scotland.

nah, Mallinder probably has Brookes locked up in a dungeon somewhere- he'll be expecting another 80 minute shift from him at the weekend again.

That would be three consecutive games after knee surgery.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm witholding my excitement until they announce which 23 will kept - still four to be dropped.

I'm surprised at no Brookes - Cole didn't cover himself in glory and Hill wasn't trusted vs Scotland.

Jones was pretty happy with Cole.

Guess it might be deemed not worth the risk against Italy and better for Brookes to play for club.

 

[RJV]

Please watch O Farrell Mr Jones

I have just watched the England v Scotland game for the third time, (saddo) I was looking to find good points to enjoy.
Some great games from most players Vunipola brothers were superb, Haskell worked so hard, Dylan was fine, Nowell was excellent in attack and defence.
But there were too many out of touch and out of form players playing. Youngs was far too slow, Brown must still be concussed, Robshaw was out of sorts. But, Why o Why is Farrell still in this side. He's a prima donna. He can't tackle, He's slow, laborious, aggressive at completely the wrong moments, His kicking is lost, he must have no confidence. That was a tight match and had it gone down to the wire giving stupid penalties away in the last minutes of the game, especially in the red zones is outrageous!!!!! He was completely out of touch. Now his Father has left the coaching staff, I wonder how long he can keep his place. Ford can do the goal kicking, Nowell seems to kick from hand better than Ford, Take Farrell out and get the Battering ram Tuilagi in!! Even out of form He'd be scaring the opposition.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I really, really, really hope so.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jones was pretty happy with Cole.

and Haskell,
and thinks T.Youngs needs to work on his carrying and defence,
and Cipriani needs to work on his attacking game.


I'm starting to see a theme here.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Farrell should be playing at 10, he's far far better than Ford at the moment.