England future management?

[ratsapprentice]

Has saints attack really improved with King?
Have certainly hit a bit of a road bump ATM.

It did last season. (significantly)

Jake White....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You try playing attacking rugby with a Dickson/Myler half back pairing

 

[Isengard]

Nice to see nobody trying to defend SL and claiming this is some sort of mistake. I was aghast when he was given the job and I'm thrilled he's gone. Not on any personal level but as a coach he was disastrous. I am heartened by Ritchie ' s claim to be looking for an experienced international coach. That, of course, means that only an insane return for SCW can prevent a foreign coach. I just hope that a properly experienced and qualified coach will, finally, be appointed after these 12 wasted years. After all this inconsistency and drift I want to see a coach who will identify and stick with the best team to suit his style of play, some tactical flexibility but who will have a core of players who are kept together. I want to see players given clear roles and played in position. I would prefer a centre pairing that has some craft and skill. I'll sacrifice absolute defensive solidity for some invention and flair. I do not want to see Brad Barrit or any similar heads down, bulldozing player in an England shirt. I want a creative and intelligent 10 who can really spark the team which means Farrell can't be it. Don't select players who lack basic skills for their role. Tom Youngs is a hooker who can't throw reliably, therefore is no use etc. I expect clear tactics which aren't constantly tinkered with. I want to see the three useless 'coaches' who are inexplicably still there removed also. Given all this I don't see anyone but White who is likely to take it and fits the bill. I think Cotter is a good idea but maybe not quite proven yet. I don't want to see some fudge like Geech and the nightmare scenario is yet another no mark, no hope internal RFU yes man with no experience. I wouldn't put it past the stuffed shirts to 'promote' Farrell as the 'natural' replacement and claim he's got international experience, but they couldn't possibly make such a disastrous error, could they??

 

[nickdnz]

Nice to see nobody trying to defend SL and claiming this is some sort of mistake. I was aghast when he was given the job and I'm thrilled he's gone. Not on any personal level but as a coach he was disastrous. I am heartened by Ritchie ' s claim to be looking for an experienced international coach. That, of course, means that only an insane return for SCW can prevent a foreign coach. I just hope that a properly experienced and qualified coach will, finally, be appointed after these 12 wasted years. After all this inconsistency and drift I want to see a coach who will identify and stick with the best team to suit his style of play, some tactical flexibility but who will have a core of players who are kept together. I want to see players given clear roles and played in position. I would prefer a centre pairing that has some craft and skill. I'll sacrifice absolute defensive solidity for some invention and flair. I do not want to see Brad Barrit or any similar heads down, bulldozing player in an England shirt. I want a creative and intelligent 10 who can really spark the team which means Farrell can't be it. Don't select players who lack basic skills for their role. Tom Youngs is a hooker who can't throw reliably, therefore is no use etc. I expect clear tactics which aren't constantly tinkered with. I want to see the three useless 'coaches' who are inexplicably still there removed also. Given all this I don't see anyone but White who is likely to take it and fits the bill. I think Cotter is a good idea but maybe not quite proven yet. I don't want to see some fudge like Geech and the nightmare scenario is yet another no mark, no hope internal RFU yes man with no experience. I wouldn't put it past the stuffed shirts to 'promote' Farrell as the 'natural' replacement and claim he's got international experience, but they couldn't possibly make such a disastrous error, could they??

Return of Martin Johnson? :lol:

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

There are plenty of experienced international coaches out there who are dire or have been. The RFU can **** this up yet.

 

[nickdnz]

For my picks of experienced national coaches (who aren't already with a team or who have ruled themselves out such as Henry/Smith).

Eddie Jones
Jake White
Robbie Deans
SCW

I would imagine it would go to Jake White. I actually still really rate Deans, but I'd think Eddie Jones would be the next choice. SCW seems to have spent a fair amount of time ******* in the RFU's pocket - and has done little in rugby since 2003 - so don't see him being up for the coaching job.

 

[Colombia]

Couple of extra names in Mallett & Mitchell:

Robbie Deans
Eddie Jones
John Mitchell
Nick Mallett
Jake White

I guess one could throw in Eddie O'Sullivan, Declan Kidney, Pieter De Villiers and Ewen McKenzie but they're highly unlikely to get the job.

Deans kind of ruled himself out, as did Nick Mallett informally. Mitchell seems unlikely so that would leave Jake White & Eddie Jones.

Edit: I realise I've pretty much just copied Nicknz's post but hey imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[smartcooky]

Whoever wins task of coaching England, it is not going to be an easy or enviable one, especially if the deadwood (Farrell, Andrew, Ritchie and Catt) aren't cleaned out too. However, I do have a couple of tips for him.

As I see it, quite aside from Lancaster's seeming inability to get a consistent centre pair going, despite having four years and over 40 test matches to do so, there were other problems.

1. A lack of good and consistent set piece ball (evidence the line-out cock up at the end of the Wales match)
2. An inability to generate quick ball from the breakdown (evidence any match you watch England play)
3. A lack of a genuine fetcher to turn over possession and the tackle. (likewise)

Now I don't have a solution to #1, other than to say, get a South African lineout coach (I wonder if Victor Matfield is available), and an Argentinian scrum coach.

However, for #2 and #3, I have a couple of ideas. I have watched a far bit of Aviva Premiership this year, and I have to say, I am yet to see a No. 7 who operates as a turnover specialist, who would merit selection in any ITM Cup side. So, Mr X (whoever you might be) here is your solution to those two problems...

1. Send your talent scouts to New Zealand or Australia next year and find two No. 7's playing in the ITM Cup or NZ Senior Club competitions in the provinces or the Shute Shield or NRC in Australia. Good fetchers are a dime a dozen in this part of the world. (while you're at it see if you can find a 9 who knows how to clear the ball quickly, and a 10 who is willing to take the ball to the line and not sit back in the pocket for 80 minutes... we have a few of those too).

2. Offer them truckloads of money to play their rugby in England (God knows the RFU is not short of cash)

3. Make sure you get them into England quickly and playing so that they meet the residency criteria by 2018 in order to have them for RWC2019 (if either or both have an English grandparent, so much the better).

4. If you REALLY want to keep Chris Robshaw as captain, get him into the No 6 jersey where he belongs. Robshaw is a very reliable, hard tackling and ball carrying No. 6. He has the potential to shut down the blindside in a similar fashion to the way Jerome Kaino does for NZ, but like Kaino, he ain't a No. 7


Finally, as a general comment, if you really want to go down the path of finding another League star to switch codes, DO IT NOW! Don't wait till 2019 is almost upon you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

However, for #2 and #3, I have a couple of ideas. I have watched a far bit of Aviva Premiership this year, and I have to say, I am yet to see a No. 7 who operates as a turnover specialist, who would merit selection in any ITM Cup side. So, Mr X (whoever you might be) here is your solution to those two problems...

1. Send your talent scouts to New Zealand or Australia next year and find two No. 7's playing in the ITM Cup or NZ Senior Club competitions in the provinces or the Shute Shield or NRC in Australia. Good fetchers are a dime a dozen in this part of the world. (while you're at it see if you can find a 9 who knows how to clear the ball quickly, and a 10 who is willing to take the ball to the line and not sit back in the pocket for 80 minutes... we have a few of those too).

We've got 7s and 10s, though!
Kvesic and Fraser have started the season exceptionally well, and are 7s exactly as you described and young enough to have two RWCs in them.
Could just be a case of you not seeing Gloucester/Saracens play.

 

[TheOvalBall]

I honestly think Robbie Deans would be the best choice.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I really like the idea of Eddie Jones, but it would cost a boat load to get him out of his Stormers contract now. Jake White/Nick Mallett... meh, I'm yet to be convinced they're the right choice for England.

Would like to see Wilko come into the coaching setup as kicking coach, having a guy like that around can do so much for a squad.

SCW seems to have spent a fair amount of time ******* in the RFU's pocket - and has done little in rugby since 2003 - so don't see him being up for the coaching job.

But don't you realise? Us England fans still live in 2003! For us it was only yesterday...

 

[Peat]

We have a boat load.

I'm not sure I want Jones. I can see that one going down a pan of recriminations and media storms when instant success isn't coming. I'm not sure he's really going to cotton on too well to our one-note lumps.

My paranoia possibly has more to do with the fact that there seems to be a determination to get the anti-Lancaster rather than the actual right man and team; we are fighting the last war, and that's always a recipe for a disaster.

I really wish there was someone who looked promoting in the English system. "What do you know about England's player pool" should be an extremely important interview question.

 

[smartcooky]

I must confess that my comments were made somewhat TiC, but I am sure you knew that, however

We've got 7s and 10s, though!
Kvesic and Fraser have started the season exceptionally well, and are 7s exactly as you described and young enough to have two RWCs in them.

...so where where were they at the RWC.

Why on earth did Lancaster insist on playing Robshaw at 7. The guy couldn't turn over a fried egg!!

Could just be a case of you not seeing Gloucester/Saracens play.

I saw Sarries v Saints last weekend. Hard to judge on such an attritional game. Also, isn't Sarries No. 7 a Namibian international, so not eligible for England?

I also saw Gloucester get hammered by Wasps (highlights only) so a bit hard to judge there too

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

.

I really wish there was someone who looked promoting in the English system. "What do you know about England's player pool" should be an extremely important interview question.

Then the only person who will be hired is an English coach then.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I must confess that my comments were made somewhat TiC, but I am sure you knew that, however



...so where where were they at the RWC.

Why on earth did Lancaster insist on playing Robshaw at 7. The guy couldn't turn over a fried egg!!



I saw Sarries v Saints last weekend. Hard to judge on such an attritional game. Also, isn't Sarries No. 7 a Namibian international, so not eligible for England?

I also saw Gloucester get hammered by Wasps (highlights only) so a bit hard to judge there too

1) Only Lancaster will know.

2) No Burger isn't Saracens 7 anymore, Fraser is first choice WHEN fit .

 

[Tony Manx]

Interesting question is if England appoint a "foreign mercenary" as coach, what will be the position of those other "mercenaries" - English players playing abroad?!

 

[gaston le gaff]

apparently Sky mentioned Jake White this morning but that is not the first time and he is in London for the match tonight

 

[Peat]

Then the only person who will be hired is an English coach then.

It would weight the balance heavily, yes, but given the number of other highly important questions that most Englishmen would struggle with such as "Are you a top class head coach", it probably wouldn't in this case.

Nothing stopping foreign coaches from doing their homework either. If I've got White interviewing one day and Jones interviewing the next, and one says "I'll watch the videos when I've got the job mate", and the other can comment intelligently on the prospects of Walker, Cooper-Woolley, Ewels, Ludlam, Townsend, Protheroe, Williams and Malin because he's phoned up some guys and watched some videos, then I've got a strong idea who I'm preferring at this point.

Interesting question is if England appoint a "foreign mercenary" as coach, what will be the position of those other "mercenaries" - English players playing abroad?!

Same as ever assuming the coach changes nothing. Don't see how they'd be connected.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Slightly disappointed that Deans is getting more of a shout by the mainstream media.

Mind you Mallinder, COS and Ford seem to be ranked higher (God help us).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, the player pool bit is concerning me.
We've got a lot of talent in the prem, but how much does White/Jones know about them?