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[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

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Ddanno

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At this stage and after so many months of uncertainty at 12 I'd be content to see the coaches take a blind punt on Slade or Burgess if it meant they'd commit someone to the position (read that as sending 36 and possibly Burr and Barr home. I'm not, admittedly, Barritt's biggest fan when it comes to the national side and Burrell needs .. something else. I just don't know what because when he sparks he actually looks really good). Point being that this late in the day even the players fighting for the spot are probably feeling as tired as I am in not knowing who has a decent shot at making the squad.

Good news in the article re: Brookes, at least. Hope he's available for another warm up. Had a solid run out on Saturday.
 

Wendigo7

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not sure how.



Yes, hence me saying whomever doesn't get a start this week is likely in the final squad (right at the end of the post you quoted)



incorrect.

Because the squad is selected doesn't mean the first choice team has to run out against Ireland - he has 6 centres to fit into three games, he is likely to pick four, but he may want to see whom out of his first choice 4 is at the better balanced pairing - which he could easily do in the ireland game.

he already knows BB and JJ, as he does 36 & Lb he could easily select all of them without starting them, he has to give people a chance to stake a claim, they've had three years.
Right I get that, but surely going into the world cup, at least in my head common sense would say you play some combinations but for the most part that's done in the first game. The second game away you'd like to bring the main guys some match fitness and the third is getting into the swing of things?
 

kesh

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He can use the Fiji game to get into the swing of things. Would still prefer to see some combinations as someone (hopefully not JJ) is likely to be injuried at some point in the WC. Thought BB / Burrell would start this France game as he was talking about players taking their chance, which Burrell hasn't had yet. Not too sure what now with Barritt injuried, maybe one half Slade/Burgess again to see if Burgess can repeat the last game or at least not look out of place then LB--JJ in the second half or vice versa. Can't see Faz been used but who knows.
 
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Willodell100

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Anyone know what time the match day squad is being announced today?

Very intrigued to see who SL picks. I would not like to be in his shoes mind as he's got some massive decision to make!

Thinking about it would be worth (in time for 2019) to have a squad of 46 and simply playing two matches every weekend for two weeks?

I understand there are cost and logistical implications but it would mean management would get a chance to see all players properly in a match environment. Furthermore it would give both player and coach a good run of games leading into a World Cup and combinations could be tested for more than an 50mins.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Cipriani has to go to the world cup.

Goode is a better 15, but Danny can do a job from the bench (especially when you've got two of May/Nowell/Watson on the pitch) - he just creates so much, and terrifies defences with how close he can get to the gainline, with the pace he has, and still get the pass away perfectly if the gap doesn't open.
I mean look at the way he smashed Jamie George through gaps - his first cap, away from home, in a smashed pack and he was making yards for fun off of Cips' short passing game.


Farrell must be ecstatic, as well - in the 6N people (other than GN10) would say you're mental if you said he had a shout at being the starting 10 in the RWC, but he looks as nailed on as you could be, after tonight.
 

ncurd

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Don't think Ford looses his starting spot after one poor game but he needs to step up vs Ireland otherwise Farrell will be starting.

Agree on Cips need to take Slade as well a second distributor on field made huge differences to both Farrell/Ford both weeks.
 

Tigs Man

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Lancaster will NOT pick Slade IMO.
 

ragerancher

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Lancaster will NOT pick Slade IMO.

Just like how he won't pick a breakdown specialist... England have had major problems when we have had 1 decision maker and nobody controlling the breakdown to give them time to think. Lancaster seems to want to combine both weaknesses... We have been found out 3 times now (Ireland and France twice) and no doubt Wales and Australia have seen this and know that as long as they pressure the breakdown and don't give our 10 time to think, we are buggered. It is actually becoming infuriating watching the forwards fan out across the pitch on our ball whilst doing so little to ensure it even stays our ball! Yeah when you have momentum going forwards you can do that but NOT when you're attacking from a standstill and your first priority is maintaining possession.

Ford did badly but I don't think any 10 would have salvaged much from that.
 

Wendigo7

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Don't think Ford losses his spot yet, but play like that again and he'll deserve to lose the spot frankly.

Think both Slade and Burgess will get in, Cipriani will miss out to Goode.
 

Tigs Man

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England's World Cup squad:
1) Marler, Vunipola
2) Youngs, Webber, George
3) Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4) Launchbury, Attwood
5) Lawes, Parling
6) Wood, Haskell
7) Robshaw
8) Vunipola, Easter
9) Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
10) Ford, Farrell
11) May
12) Barritt, Burgess
13) Joesph, Burrell
14) Nowell, Watson
15) Brown, Goode


Olyy will then be crying in the corner with pictures of Lund and Cips covering all the floor and pictures of Ford, Lancaster and Farrell snr all over the walls in A Beautiful Mind type breakdown and being tormented by visions of Steffon Armitage following you where ever you go.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Lancaster will NOT pick Slade IMO.
Agreed,

He'll pick 36 to do the same job, except Slade is superior at literally every asset of the game, he just hasn't been in the England set up as long so will miss out because of "lol experience".


England's World Cup squad:
1) Marler, Vunipola
2) Youngs, Webber, George
3) Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4) Launchbury, Attwood
5) Lawes, Parling
6) Wood, Haskell
7) Robshaw
8) Vunipola, Easter
9) Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
10) Ford, Farrell
11) May
12) Barritt, Burgess
13) Joesph, Burrell
14) Nowell, Watson
15) Brown, Goode


Olyy will then be crying in the corner with pictures of Lund and Cips covering all the floor and pictures of Ford, Lancaster and Farrell snr all over the walls in A Beautiful Mind type breakdown and being tormented by visions of Steffon Armitage following you where ever you go.
I accepted that Lancs was a North-West hating prick a long time ago.

What other self respecting Northerner with the surname LANCASTER would go off and work in/with/be associated with YORKSHIRE.
Blood traitor.

Picking Ford/Farrell/Wigglesworth makes him vomit blood every time, the only reason it doesn't kill him is because they play for fairy sides down south now.
 

yaboyjj

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The backline takes on a whole new dimension with a second distributor playing alongside Ford- I just don't know if Barritt/Joseph/Brown is enough. Slade at 13 or Cips at 15 would give so many more options and bring the wingers into the game. Basically, one of Cips or Slade has to make the squad for me. England looked so much better with Slade in the first game and when Cips came on at the end of the second- it's hardly revolutionary with SA having Le roux, Aus Toomua/Guitau, etc.

George could well take the starting shirt imo- his running game was great- he along with Attwood were looking like the only ones running angles off the distributors.
 

TRF_Olyy

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10. Farrell
12. Slade
13. Joseph

Joseph runs Bath's defence, and Farrell/Slade are considerably better in defence than Ford/Eastmond, so it shouldn't be an issue on that front.

I'm a big fan of Barritt, but I'm also a big fan of the double distributor model.
 

ncurd

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My world cup squad if I had a choice (I don't and this isn't who he will select).

1) Marler, Vunipola
2) Youngs, Webber, George
3) Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4) Launchbury, Attwood
5) Lawes, Parling
6) Wood, Haskell
7) Robshaw
8) Vunipola, Easter
9) Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
10) Ford, Farrell
11) May
12) Barritt, Burgess
13) Joesph, Slade
14) Nowell, Watson
15) Brown, Cipriani

Watson is the real fullback cover. I suspect Tigs Man is 100% right except I fully expect Lancaster to take 36 instead of Burgess....

- - - Updated - - -

The backline takes on a whole new dimension with a second distributor playing alongside Ford- I just don't know if Barritt/Joseph/Brown is enough. Slade at 13 or Cips at 15 would give so many more options and bring the wingers into the game. Basically, one of Cips or Slade has to make the squad for me. England looked so much better with Slade in the first game and when Cips came on at the end of the second- it's hardly revolutionary with SA having Le roux, Aus Toomua/Guitau, etc.

George could well take the starting shirt imo- his running game was great- he along with Attwood were looking like the only ones running angles off the distributors.
I'm struggling to think of a single 10 who doesn't look significantly better with a second distributor on the pitch however the prevailing thought seams to be use sledgehammer in the centers. Joseph only got his shot through injury and is probably only still first choice because he's been so brilliant. It's extremely frustrating watching the England backline as we have the parts but we seam extremely reluctant to put them together.
 

goodNumber10

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My world cup squad if I had a choice (I don't and this isn't who he will select).

1) Marler, Vunipola
2) Youngs, Webber, George
3) Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4) Launchbury, Attwood
5) Lawes, Parling
6) Wood, Haskell
7) Robshaw
8) Vunipola, Easter
9) Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
10) Ford, Farrell
11) May
12) Barritt, Burgess
13) Joesph, Slade
14) Nowell, Watson
15) Brown, Cipriani

Watson is the real fullback cover. I suspect Tigs Man is 100% right except I fully expect Lancaster to take 36 instead of Burgess....

- - - Updated - - -

I'm struggling to think of a single 10 who doesn't look significantly better with a second distributor on the pitch however the prevailing thought seams to be use sledgehammer in the centers. Joseph only got his shot through injury and is probably only still first choice because he's been so brilliant. It's extremely frustrating watching the England backline as we have the parts but we seam extremely reluctant to put them together.

The issue is they need ball carriers in the midfield to balance out the lack of effective ones in the pack, i just think they are looking for them int he wrong position, i think we'd be better with a ball carrier at 13 not 12, and then someone like 36 (like, not actually 36) at 12 (no point playing 36 with Jospeh).
 

ncurd

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Yeah but how do you justify dropping Joseph? The guys been electric for us 5 tries in 6 games no idea on the amount of assists but I know he's a hand in a few. Most people quite frankly would think Lancaster mad to drop our most in form backline player and justifiably so.
 

goodNumber10

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Yeah but how do you justify dropping Joseph? The guys been electric for us 5 tries in 6 games no idea on the amount of assists but I know he's a hand in a few. Most people quite frankly would think Lancaster mad to drop our most in form backline player and justifiably so.

I'm not saying drop Joseph, i'm just saying the way England play you have to have a big carrier in midfield, and with our two fly half options that carrier would be better off at 13 (they'll cause more damage there). So there is no point playing 36 & Joseph as you don't have a genuine carrier there.

people are calling for a ball player at 12, but that's not going to work with Jospeh at 13 (regardless of how bath play), so it's either a ball player at 12, and Burgess/Burrell at 13 or Joseph at 13 and Burgess or Barritt at 12.

Can't have it both ways.
 

Tony Manx

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Burgess or Burrell? Really, is that the choice? We are all doomed......
 

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Agreed,

He'll pick 36 to do the same job, except Slade is superior at literally every asset of the game, he just hasn't been in the England set up as long so will miss out because of "lol experience".

Not as good at trucking it up and not as good at the breakdown. Probably not as strong a defensive organiser either, not that it matters in that squad. Slade is an immensely classy player and he should be in the squad, but he's not an all-round centre, not yet and maybe not ever. I doubt Twelvetrees is going either mind. So much for Lancaster's search for a ball-playing centre....

If he drops all of Cipriani, Slade and Twelvetrees I might be mildly tetchy. The continuing quest to denude our backline of all playmakers outside of 10 is beginning to get to me. I don't see what more the first two are meant to have done either. Hell, even Twelvetrees was decent-ish, and if Lancaster could overlook his past blunders enough to pick him to this point...

I have a feeling we're going to see a Joseph on the wing experiment before too long.

p.s. I was predicting Farrell ahead of Ford post the 6N. I was wrong (at least so far), but it's always looked plausible to me. I wish Lancaster could make up his mind what sort of team this is meant to be.
 
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