[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Patchey, Apr 6, 2015.

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  1. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    So the England 6N threat is several thousand pages long and a bit unweildy. Thought I'd start a new discussion here for all the pre-RWC speculation that has already started.

    After the 6N and given the selection patterns over the last few seasons I reckon the following are 'nailed on' in the squad if fit:

    Hookers: Hartley, Youngs.
    Props: Cole, Marler, Vunnipola, Corbisiero, Brookes.
    Second Rows: Lawes, Launchbury, Parling.
    Back Rows: Robshaw, Wood, Vunnipola, Morgan.
    Scrum Halves: Youngs, Wigglesworth.
    Fly Halves: Ford, Farrell.
    Centres: Burrell, Joseph, Tuilagi.
    Wings: Nowell, Watson.
    Fullbacks: Brown, Goode.

    That leaves six places for the final squad. Realistically I think May/Yarde, Twelvetrees and Care/Simpson are almost certain to be there. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cipriani miss out, with Goode and 36 'covering' fly-half.

    That leaves four more places. Another hooker at least? And maybe a prop (as discussed in the England thread, ideally you'd have six props even if the World Cup squad limit doesn't reflect the larger match day squads than last time). Easter as someone who covers back row and lock? In the backs, a utility players and another winger/fullback?

    I think Itoje, Slade and Simpson are the only real bolters with a chance. Simpson probably has the best as the moment as Care is massively out of favour. The other two need a really strong end of season.

    Finally, just for a laugh, I rewatched the England v France QF from 2011 the other day. Painful stuff. But it did remind me that the last time England played a game in the Rugby World Cup, our match day squad was:



    How times change eh?
     
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  3. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    Wilson will go ahead of Brookes if fit.
     
  4. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    Derp. Yes of course.
     
  5. TheSaffycen

    TheSaffycen Senior Member

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    Looking at your nailed on guys I'm surprised you haven't put Barritt in there. The guy is clearly liked and is 99% nailed on to be in the squad. Then again would twelvetrees be preferred as he can cover 10/12/13 ? Useful in a world cup squad. Same with May being able to cover 13/11/14/15 so I think he will be called in. Then a lock come back row looking at the squad and Saxons the only players I can think of are Garvey /Itoje /Easter /Kruis/ Launchbury. Now Launchbury is going no matter what. Garvey and Itoje I think won't be going, unless Maro starts nearly every game for sarries as he is just too young. So out of Kruis and Easter it all depends on if we won't ball carrying or workrate. So probably Kruis though Easter looked good in the 6 nations.
     
  6. chippieolamus

    chippieolamus Senior Member

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    Yeah Barritt is more nailed on than Burrell, and Wilson over Brookes. Launch and Lawes can cover 6 in an emergency, so I would expect the 4th lock to be Attwood not Easter.
     
  7. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    The issue with Easter is he doesn't really cover flanker. Now, if one of Bill or Ben goes down, then an 8/lock is a fantastic resource, but elsewise, not so much, cos 3 8s with limited experience of flanker duties be whack.
     
  8. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    I'd say 36 over Barritt because of his ability to cover. I can't see anything to convince me that Cips will be in the squad. And therefore we'll be wanting a couple of players who can cover fly-half, especially in pool games against 'lesser' opposition.

    You're probably right about Itoje. Until Manu four years ago, he isn't started regularly yet.

    Re Easter, his non covering of 6/7 is an issue. I think he might still edge it over Kruis. This is purely based on the fact that he seem to have shaken off the attitude issues that England didn't like?


    Of course, there is one bit bolter I haven't mentioned yet...
     
  9. Wendigo7

    Wendigo7 Senior Member

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    Cipriani could get picked as a Utility back. He's lined up in the same role Goode has lined up. I reckon he will be put down as a Fullback.

    Goode to miss out, Twelvetrees to cover the 10/12/13 role if needed. Slade might also feature but those 2 might be in a straight shoot out.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Itoje slip in if he continues his good form.

    Barritt over Burrell as a shoe in also.
     
  10. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    Subject to injury I expect the final England 31 will look like this:

    Props: Corbs, Marler, Vunipola, Wilson and Cole

    Hooker Hartley, Youngs, Webber

    Locks Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, Attwood

    Back row Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Vunipola, Morgan

    SHs Youngs, Wigglesworth, Care

    FHs Ford, Farrell

    Centres Barritt, Joseph, Tuilagi and Twelvetrees.

    Wings Watson, Nowell and ????? (don't know: between Ashton, May, Rokoduguni, Wade, Yarde)

    Full backs Brown and Goode.

    Personally, I would like to see Steffon Armitage in the final squad and Slade as an option at 12. But the arguments of the former have been gone through too many times. We will see, Armitage at best would be a sub in the 23.
     
  11. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    When Abendanon was interview post-match on Saturday, reference was made to the coaches being allowed to pick players from overseas club in the World Cup squad. That's the first time I've seen that mentioned as an actual fact. Does anyone know if selecting guys from France is actually an option?

    Cips as a fullback would be bizarre but not unthinkable.

    I think you're underestimating how much the coaches love Burrell. He'll make the squad. If Barritt does come in it'll be for 36.
     
  12. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    First I've heard of it, too.
    I can't see Lancaster doing it, to be honest.
     
  13. Wendigo7

    Wendigo7 Senior Member

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    Kvesic got MOM on Friday against albeit limited opposition.

    I wish they would take a look at him for once.
     
  14. living sacrifice

    living sacrifice Senior Member

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    I just can't see the point in taking manu as he wont have played at all before the World Cup. With JJs form as well manu isn't likely to be tried in the warm up games where we really need to settle on a centre partnership.

    I think 12trees, JJ, burrell and barritt

    Burrell and barritt cover 12 and 12trees can cover 10.
     
  15. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    Yeah, it would be very odd. Just wondering if it does at least give the option for Armitage to return. I wouldn't advocate him coming in to the squad, but hey ho.

    Because he is, of with BB, our most experienced centre/back outside of nine and one of only two likely starters in the backs to have played in a Worls Cup before?

    He also, hopefully, still has the potential to be a real game changer.

    On those points, he probably deserves a spot in the squad. If he's allowed to waltz straight back into the starting 23 that would be a bit if a joke though. Ideally Leicester don't have the top four and be maybe gets a run out against the BaBaas? Although he may not be for by then.
     
  16. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Maybe because Burrell has been the worse player for England in the six nations.
     
  17. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    Re caps in the back line (I'm bored and on a train), here are some stats from Wikipedia:

    Danny Care: 50 caps

    Ben Youngs: 48 caps

    Owen Farrell: 29 caps (and 290 points, so a 10pt per game average!)

    Manu Tuilagi: 25 caps

    Brad Barritt: 22 caps

    Care I unlikely to be in a first choice 23 so realistically, Manu is one of our most experienced backs.

    He's also one of only (I think) eight guys in the current set up (nine if you count Easter) to have played at a World Cup before.

    I think Haskell is the only current England player to have won a Heineken Cup. Obviously some of the Saints and Sarries lads have been finalists.

    Not really sure what point I'm trying to make, other than it is quite easy to forget how transitional the current squad still is. Can't imagine we've ever gone into a RWC with so few players having player in one before?
     
  18. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Cips started at full back in that heinken cup final game aswell. So has a medal.
     
  19. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    God, that feels like ancient history!
     
  20. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    I was at that game unfortunately :(
     
  21. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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    Well, I put my foot in it there...
     
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