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[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

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Tigs Man

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Pretty sure sinfield will be Captain.

Leeds card will be strong for Lancaster.
 

yaboyjj

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T5HoOHpzAk
Exeter v Newcastle game up on youtube if people didn't catch it live- well worth watching the second half, as there were some fantastic tries. Hill and Ewers both prominent (check out the try on 54 min)
 

Patchey

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That Waldron try made me warm and fuzzy below the belt. Ewers you beast.

I only read the first few comments on that but I'm amazed to say that I've now read a comment section on a news article and DIDN'T want to scoop my eyes out with a spoon.

This is a strange world we live in. Rational comments?
 

TheSaffycen

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I don't care if Ewers doesn't jump at lineouts........
 

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I feel like an absolute killjoy now but you won't see that try scored against a decent defence. I wish we had a better idea of what Ewers did against top rate opposition in a top rate side.
 

ragerancher

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I feel like an absolute killjoy now but you won't see that try scored against a decent defence. I wish we had a better idea of what Ewers did against top rate opposition in a top rate side.

Chiefs aren't 5th with 3rd most tries because they can't perform. Also Thomas Waldrom is currently top try scorer. Having said that, I'd like to see Ewers in the England side against another international team.
 

TRF_Peat

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Chiefs aren't 5th with 3rd most tries because they can't perform. Also Thomas Waldrom is currently top try scorer. Having said that, I'd like to see Ewers in the England side against another international team.

To clarify, by top rate rugby, I basically mean the elite European matches and international rugby. No AP match qualifies and I'd say only Saracens are really truly a top rate side in the AP, and even then I have a few doubts about them.
 

living sacrifice

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Chiefs aren't 5th with 3rd most tries because they can't perform. Also Thomas Waldrom is currently top try scorer. Having said that, I'd like to see Ewers in the England side against another international team.

Dare I say this but I think ewers at 6 and wood at 7 would be a better combo the ewers and robshaw.

Wood has that extra pace and I think would complement ewers bulk.
 

yaboyjj

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I feel like an absolute killjoy now but you won't see that try scored against a decent defence. I wish we had a better idea of what Ewers did against top rate opposition in a top rate side.
Although it was officialy a 'B' team, he more than held his own against a pretty good Irish Wolfhounds team in January (him and Kvesic bossed the breakdown v O'Brien et al.).
Anyone else noticed how improved Vunipola is at ruck time/over the ball? seems to be making a few important turnovers every match now.
Looks like Brown is still struggling with concussion symptoms from the Italy match, which is a bit worrying.
 
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j'nuh

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I feel like an absolute killjoy now but you won't see that try scored against a decent defence. I wish we had a better idea of what Ewers did against top rate opposition in a top rate side.
Lapses in defence are rarer at international level, but it just means that it's important that international players are able to exploit those rarer moments. And whilst that won't translate into beating 6 consecutive All Blacks and result in a try, it will still probably mean that he'll be able to beat one or two defenders and get us on the front foot. I don't think there's another 6 in England that could do that.

Also, that offload by Ewers in that kind of situation is impossible to defend against and will definitely work on the international stage.

Ewers and Morgan would ooze class. It's almost tempting to then have Vunipola at 7 and batter teams into submission.
 
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yaboyjj

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Lapses in defence are rarer at international level, but it just means that it's important that international players are able to exploit those rarer moments. And whilst that won't translate into beating 6 consecutive All Blacks and result in a try, it will still probably mean that he'll be able to beat one or two defenders and get us on the front foot. I don't think there's another 6 in England that could do that.

Also, that offload by Ewers in that kind of situation is impossible to defend against and will definitely work on the international stage.

Ewers and Morgan would ooze class. It's almost tempting to then have Vunipola at 7 and batter teams into submission.
Vunipola, Youngs, Brookes, Itoje, Launch, Ewers, Vunipola, Morgan... That would take some stopping- best hope there's no lineouts or the opposition ups the tempo though :lol:
 

ratsapprentice

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Vunipola, Youngs, Brookes, Itoje, Launch, Ewers, Vunipola, Morgan... That would take some stopping- best hope there's no lineouts or the opposition ups the tempo though :lol:

Ewers would be fine with a high tempo - he's the third highest tackler in the premiership, whilst also having a large carrying responsibility.
He's more than capable of making 20+ tackles and 10+ carries a game* - which for a 125kg bloke is remarkable.

*Those aren't soft tackles or carries either, full-blooded efforts practically every time.
 
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TRF_Peat

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Although it was officialy a 'B' team, he more than held his own against a pretty good Irish Wolfhounds team in January (him and Kvesic bossed the breakdown v O'Brien et al.).

It was a good performance against good opposition, but it was also a one-off in less than competitive circumstances, so I don't think it's the best indicator. Don't get me wrong, I am interested in find out more - but I feel like the hype train's getting run up pretty high based on performances at a comparatively lesser level and I'm wondering if it's going to go agley.
 

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Isn't it based on him being consistently awesome for the last two seasons?
 

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Isn't it based on him being consistently awesome for the last two seasons?

Pretty much.
All you've got to judge any uncapped player on is their club form, discounting that because it's not international seems pretty daft. You'd never get any new players because i mean sure they're playing well for their club but that's not exactly the all blacks, so we'll just stick with what we've got.
 

TRF_Peat

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Pretty much.
All you've got to judge any uncapped player on is their club form, discounting that because it's not international seems pretty daft. You'd never get any new players because i mean sure they're playing well for their club but that's not exactly the all blacks, so we'll just stick with what we've got.

*slow clap*

Yes, that's completely what I said.
 

goodNumber10

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Pretty much.
All you've got to judge any uncapped player on is their club form, discounting that because it's not international seems pretty daft. You'd never get any new players because i mean sure they're playing well for their club but that's not exactly the all blacks, so we'll just stick with what we've got.

I think what Peat is talking about is holding our opinions back a bit until we see how he goes in the rarefied arena that is knock out Rugby (for me that's HC QF on wards).

The problem is that unless the Chiefs make those kind of competitive games then the scenario is out of the question, so the best we can do is base it on AP.

For what it's worth I'm also not convinced he'll make the step up.
 
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j'nuh

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I think what Peat is talking about is holding our opinions back a bit until we see how he goes in the rarefied arena that is knock out Rugby (for me that's HC QF on wards).

The problem is that unless the Chiefs make those kind of competitive games then the scenario is out of the question, so the best we can do is base it on AP.

For what it's worth I'm also not convinced he'll make the step up.
This is the bit I don't buy. Discounting 2 years of good form in the Premiership and Europe, worth roughly 50 games, including tough games against teams that are better than your own, as being a lesser evidence of worth of a player because they haven't appeared in a very small handful of knockout games, is mental.

Quality shown in the Premiership is good enough evidence to suggest whether a player will make it at international level.

Actually, let me rephrase. When you play for a team like Exeter, and there are teams like Clermont and Toulon duking it out in the European knockouts, you show more evidence of your worth in a game against e.g. the Saints/Sarries in the Premiership, than being bollocked by a clearly superior team in Europe. What has Saints-Clermont done for the Saints players? How many good internationals would we be discounting if we went only on the evidence of that QF?
 
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