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England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

BPM

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May was just quick when he started for England and massivly developed. If we have the likes of May Watson Nowell then take Joe as a project(not this Autumn obv) is not really as risk but i dont think McConnechie will ever be first choice for England and especially not going forward. If he gets some gametime for Bath then the 6N 2021 id like to see him given a shot. Thorley does deserve a shot though he is a class player.
Except when May was coming through, there wasn’t an incumbent of the same standard he is now. It was worth taking a risk on his development because there wasn’t an obviously better alternative.

If you want Cokanasiga to start, you have to drop May or Watson. That would be hard to justify IMO.
 

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Is Joe really that quick?
Like I know he's no slouch, but I've never seen him burn anyone the way that someone like May or Rees-Zammit does
I find it hard to believe he's fastest in the bath squad
 

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Except when May was coming through, there wasn’t an incumbent of the same standard he is now. It was worth taking a risk on his development because there wasn’t an obviously better alternative.

If you want Cokanasiga to start, you have to drop May or Watson. That would be hard to justify IMO.
We have Watson and slade that can play FB in a game so on field FB cover now starting at 23 isnt a risk and he will only get better by playing. Im saying is with him staying fit and playing next year not Autumn obv.
 

scotty507

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Is Joe really that quick?
Like I know he's no slouch, but I've never seen him burn anyone the way that someone like May or Rees-Zammit does
I find it hard to believe he's fastest in the bath squad
I read online he is quicker than Watson and JJ(was an article in the sun i think). He was running at over 10m per second. Id be interested to see may vs big joe. Also didnt LRZ looks quicker than may atm though no idea if thats true
 

TBeastT

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Is Joe really that quick?
Like I know he's no slouch, but I've never seen him burn anyone the way that someone like May or Rees-Zammit does
I find it hard to believe he's fastest in the bath squad
I wouldn’t have him in the team ATM either but he is blisteringly fast. Can’t imagine he accelerates as well as Watson or May but over 100m with his extra stride length I can definitely believe he’d be faster than both.

Jordan Larmour’s a fast guy but look at how much distance Cokonasiga makes up on him in a very short amount of time/space after having to turn around at ~1:15 in this video.
 
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BPM

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‘Credit in the bank’ is important in test rugby IMO. As long as it’s used in the right way.

I really like Thorley and I think he could do well for England, but May has been one of our best players for some time and I know based upon ample evidence that he can and will deliver at test level. He hasn’t been in sparkling form since the restart, but he hasn’t played poorly either.

At the same time, I wouldn’t pick a player who is totally out of form based upon previous performance. For example, as I said earlier in the thread, I am of the opinion that Billy really doesn’t warrant a call up right now and has a bunch of players really pushing for his spot.

I think picking him sends out the wrong message. I don’t see that with May.
 

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We can experiment in the 8N but, assuming fitness, it’s hard to look beyond May and Watson as 2 of the back 3 for proper matches in the next couple of years. Question is what shirt number Watson wears.
 

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‘Credit in the bank’ is important in test rugby IMO. As long as it’s used in the right way.

I really like Thorley and I think he could do well for England, but May has been one of our best players for some time and I know based upon ample evidence that he can and will deliver at test level. He hasn’t been in sparkling form since the restart, but he hasn’t played poorly either.

At the same time, I wouldn’t pick a player who is totally out of form based upon previous performance. For example, as I said earlier in the thread, I am of the opinion that Billy really doesn’t warrant a call up right now and has a bunch of players really pushing for his spot.

I think picking him sends out the wrong message. I don’t see that with May.
Binny’s a different case. He’s been out of form (maybe partly due to being found out and unable to adapt his game) for a while and used up his credit, plus the new rules don’t really seem to suit him.

Teams need to evolve and new players have to be fed in. But you don’t just chuck out 50 caps of experience without good reason, especially when that player has shown himself capable of developing his game as May has and Binny arguably hasn’t.
 

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Regarding credit is the bank vs form, I think it is just one of many considerations but credit should not be dismissed. Take Big Joe, arguably he is not in form as he was injured and it would be unfair to hold that against him. Besides some lapses in defence, he has met the challenge internationally and I can be reasonably confident he could continue to do so. Not enough to displace our established wingers but enough that he could be on the wing for England if ours go with the Lions or during smaller games for example. The likes of Thorley we don't yet know how he will perform internationally so that is a small point separating them.

Why is this important? Alex Goode is why. His club form was always pretty good yet he consistently struggled at international level. If anything he was in debt with the bank when it came to internationals. That counts for something. Club form is what gets you a look in, international form is what keeps you there and your "credit" is basically your accumulated proof of international form. Over time you can obviously burn through those savings if you stop performing (see Binny).

I'd also point to Ben Morgan. He was decent at club level but always seemed to step up at international. To this day I still don't understand why he fell so badly out of favour but there you go.
 

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I guess A few very good players like morgan fell by the wayside,because they didn't buy into eddies project?
 

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I guess A few very good players like morgan fell by the wayside,because they didn't buy into eddies project?
Yeah, probably couldn’t do a billion pull ups in a minute.

Guess we’ll get the truth one day but unless he failed the no plonkers test why wouldn’t you involve players who proved they could raise their game at the top level? I think Jones has had one of his blind spots where Binny’s been concerned - better at running through brick walls, yes (and at one point we didn’t have many carriers). But to my mind Morgan always had the sharper rugby brain.
 

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Interesting reading regarding Big Joe, it seems he injured his knee but because he continued training and playing with it, it exacerbated the problem and created new ones. Given the frequent and lengthy injuries players have suffered under Jones, it does call into question if he takes injury recovery seriously.
 

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Could equally be because it was a world cup and no one wants to go home with a bang on the knee if they think it could be fine after a week or so - so tell the medics it's fine and try and grit through

Haskell claims, on his podcast, that Jones is big on recovery/how the players are feeling and altering training load based on that - but then equally that could be the above, no one wants to be doing less than everyone else so claim to be 100%



Reading that, weirdly it's what my cousin retired from - he used to play for Worcester, broke his leg -> came back too soon -> back injury via compensating -> had to retire in his early 20s
 
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