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England Rugby 2019/20 Thread

Love to see S Simmonds in England but i doubt we will. Earl has alot of pace too like Simmonds and is very playing well. Doubt EJ will pick him over Billy and Dombrandt is up and coming at 8.

6 and 7? He doesnt play there for club plus Curry and underhill partnership works well. And Willis is playing out of his skin and likely the form prem player atm. No way he doesnt get a shot. It is Simmonds vs Earl and unfortunatly i cant see Simmonds winning that battle.

I do wonder what 6 7 8 20 will be come 2023.
 
I do wonder what 6 7 8 20 will be come 2023.
We've an embarrassment a riches there at the moment - we've come a long way from the days of Robshaw / Haskell / Wood.
There's literally a dozen players deserving of a slot at the moment; from which only 6 can go to the RWC, and there are other youngsters just a year or two off being ready.

We've got guys down around 6-8th choice in their specialist position who'd be capped by now if their granny had been more of a traveller. Hell, we've got guys in their 20s who've been capped by England, and have slipped that far down the pecking order whilst actually improving their rugby.
 
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Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Dunn, Jamie George, Ellis Genge, Joe Marler, Kyle Sinckler, Will Stuart, Mako Vunipola, Harry Williams, Charlie Ewels, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Alexander Moon, Tom Curry, Ben Earl, Ted Hill, Lewis Ludlham, Sam Underhill, Mark Wilson, Willi Heinz, Alex Mitchell, Ben Youngs, Owen Farrell, George Ford, Jacob Umaga, Ollie Devoto, Fraser Dingwall, Jonathan Joseph, Manu Tuilagi , Henry Slade, Jonny MAy, Ollie Thorley, Anthony Watson, Elliot Daly, George Furbank, Josh Hodge

So realistically i think you will see Kruis obviously drop out, and can't see Wilson, Heinz, Devoto or Furbank being there... either through lack of game time or age.. so likely you would see replacements.
In terms of being dropped.... Hodge & Mitchell are trainee players. In terms of cut... Hill and Ludlham could be under threat as the number of quality backrow is unbelievable.. Willis, Curry and Simmonds are hammering at that door.
 
I think Ben Curry is out of the equation - 3 to 4 weeks out with his ankle, and with the quality his competition there's no need to take a risk on someone who might not be 100%

Completely forgot Moon was in the squad,

It's going to be an interesting squad - who knows whether EJ will stick to his guns and rest the RWC players. I think he won't seeing as it's an actual cup comp, and also they've had the three month break. Also are there still rules on how many changes you can make per EPS announcement?


If we're ignoring rest periods, then my squad (compared to current EPS) would be something like

Luke Cowan-Dickie
Tom Dunn
Jamie George
Beno Obano
Ellis Genge
Joe Marler
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart
Mako Vunipola
Harry Williams
Charlie Ewels
George Kruis --> Johnny Hill
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes --> Nick Isiekwe
Maro Itoje
Alexander Moon --> Alex Dombrandt
Ted Hill
Tom Curry
Ben Earl
Lewis Ludlam --> Jack Willis
Sam Underhill
Willi Heinz --> Ben Spencer
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrell
George Ford
Jacob Umaga --> Joe Simmonds
Ollie Devoto
Fraser Dingwall --> Henry Slade
Jonathan Joseph
Manu Tuilagi --> Ollie Lawrence
Ollie Thorley --> Jack Nowell
Jonny May
Anthony Watson
Elliot Daly
George Furbank --> Max Malins

I've tried to keep it in the realm of possibility (i.e. Ben Youngs is an inevitability) - however I'd rather we had three scrumhalves (the third being Dan Robson) with Youngs phased out over this international period. Maybe drop a loosehead? Four seems a bit excessive
 
If I were Eddie…
I'd be looking to play the R6N, 8N and 6N21 with an enlarged EPS squad, and rotating to bring in the new kids, rather than just for injuries.

LHP: Marler, MVunipola, Genge, Obano
HK: George, LCD, Dunn (*Barbeary)
THP: Sinckler, Stuart, Surely-I'm-Missing-Someone-Obvious-Erm-Williams? (*Street)

LK: Itoje, Launchbury, JHill, Ewels, Isiekwe (*Kpoku)
BR: any 8 from: TCurry, Underhill, JWillis, THill, Earl, Ludlam, BVunipola, Dombrand, Mercer, SSimmonds, BCurry, WEvans (*TWillis)
23+4


SH:
Spencer, Robson, Mitchell/Maunder/Randall
FH: Ford, Farrell, JSimmonds (*Vunipola)

CE: Slade, Joseph, LJames, Devoto, Lawrence/Marchant (*Redpath)
WG: May, Nowell, Thorley, McConnochie/Cokanasiga (*Ibitoye)
FB: Watson, Daly (*Malins)
17+4
 
Isn't Ibitoye going to France?
Good point, well made.

Any other exciting youngsters out wide? Kibirigie is surely a bit old for an apprentice spot... And I've already for the 2 form wingers in the main squad already.
Maybe have Malins and De Glanville in as FB apprentices - or just 3 backs of course.
 
Good point, well made.

Any other exciting youngsters out wide? Kibirigie is surely a bit old for an apprentice spot... And I've already for the 2 form wingers in the main squad already.
Maybe have Malins and De Glanville in as FB apprentices - or just 3 backs of course.
Loader and Hassell-Collins at Irish have both impressed this season.

Josh Hodge has also been included as an apprentice before and is arguably better on the wing than at 15.
 
Just realised how old Malins is - not sure I like the idea of a 23 year old apprentice - maybe props, but not one of the quick little buggers
 
Malins should be there as a full fledged player not an apprentice - he's same age as Furbank

Hodge should be the apprentice player - his defence looks sketch at times but he's got tons of potential and the more exposure he gets the better he'll be
 
Malins should be there as a full fledged player not an apprentice - he's same age as Furbank
Instead of?

Hodge should be the apprentice player - his defence looks sketch at times but he's got tons of potential and the more exposure he gets the better he'll be
I'm trying not to hand apprentice spots to those who've already been apprentice before.
 
Sorry, I'd thought it was a reply to my suggestions.
Fair, but we've used them repeatedly before (Smith and Redpath have done multiple seasons)
True, especially fair when there's no obvious alternative to take the slot. (I think) I'm only making an exception for Redpath, as it's a position of weak depth, and I don't want to lose him to Scotland.
Freddie Steward would be my apprentice guy.
Decent call.
Would also slot Heyes above Street.
I'm happy to leave prop analysis to those who know more than me.
 
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Steward reminds me a bit of Mike Brown.
He's taller (6ft 4) and has some filling out still too do but he isn't so much the speedster that everyone raves about when they are young.
But he's excellent in the air, Got a big boot on him (Can kick from the tee from around 50m v saints aswell), a good defender already and has a very good awareness in terms of passing (generally).
Still raw though it's his first real season of senior rugby.

IDK I guess it might depend what you want from a 15 though.
Honestly Tigers isn't the best team for a young outside back currently though. (Or any position not in the front row ATM).
 
IDK I guess it might depend what you want from a 15 though.

It seems to me, that rugby is moving towards the more Alex Goode type of FB, an extra play-maker. I'd even go as far as to say that FB has taken over from IC as the place tomplay if you're a "failed" FH.
 
It seems to me, that rugby is moving towards the more Alex Goode type of FB, an extra play-maker. I'd even go as far as to say that FB has taken over from IC as the place tomplay if you're a "failed" FH.
Personally I think it makes far more sense for the 15 to be an extra playmaker than a 12. Purely because of where they're positioned in a back line, a 12 is always going to be a major carrier in a team whether they're suited to it or not as when a 10's under pressure they need to be able to use the 12 as a way of gaining some front foot ball. Nonu's probably the only recent player who was able to act superbly as both a playmaker and a crash ball. Plus, if your 12 has carried and is at the bottom of a ruck (which they do much more often than the 15) then he isn't available to act as a 2nd playmaker. A fullback doesn't have that kind of carrying responsibility so is free to act as a playmaker more often.

Plus, as defences have improved the age of a 15 being able to catch the ball at the back and tear through a defensive line is over. They need to have the playmaking ability to utilise both of their wingers in a counterattack. A Watson-type 15 just doesn't have that weapon in their arsenal.

I disagree on 15 being the new 'failed' 10 though. It's just a different skill set. Someone like Malins for example could function perfectly well as a 10 and has shown to have the playmaking ability to fill that role but due to his individual attacking prowess and pace is just more suited to playing in the back field.
 

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