England Training Squad

[LiRFCMatt]

For those that haven't seen it:

Chris Ashton (Saracens), Dave Attwood (Bath), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Kieran Brookes (Newcastle), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Luther Burrell (Northampton), Sam Burgess (Bath), Danny Care (Harlequins), Danny Cipriani (Sale), Calum Clark (Northampton), Dan Cole (Leicester), Alex Corbisiero (Northampton), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Lee Dickson (Northampton), Kyle Eastmond (Bath), Nick Easter (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Alex Goode (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester), Stephen Myler (Northampton), Ben Morgan (Gloucester), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Jack Nowell (Exeter), Geoff Parling (Leicester), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Slade (Exeter), Ed Slater (Leicester), David Strettle (Saracens), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Anthony Watson (Bath), Rob Webber (Bath), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester), Tom Youngs (Leicester)


Talking points:

No Ewers, Wade, Waldrom, Clifford, Armitage, Abendanon or Simpson (injury) and Ashton and Strettle in.

 

[Geordie]

No major surprises at all. Even the kids like Itjoe were expected to make the extended squad for experience.

Talking points:

No Ewers - I suspect the love affair with Burgess at 6 has stopped Ewers getting in

Wade - Thought he would have been in...

Waldrom - Hes been class, but I suspect Billy and Ben are the first choice

Clifford - One for the future but has put in some cracking performances this season...but Kvesic has been class and Robshaw is not safe in that 7 spot post WC

Armitage - Whats to talk about???

Abendanon - Whats to talk about??

Simpson (injury) - Had surgery

Ashton - On his day a quality and experienced attacking player - who will have a field day off ford and Joseph.

Strettle - He continually scores tries...is he ahead of Wade...who knows.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Happy With all bar Ashton and Strettle TBH.

 

[Canuck]

No major surprises at all. Even the kids like Itjoe were expected to make the extended squad for experience.

Talking points:

No Ewers - I suspect the love affair with Burgess at 6 has stopped Ewers getting in

Wade - Thought he would have been in...

Waldrom - Hes been class, but I suspect Billy and Ben are the first choice

Clifford - One for the future but has put in some cracking performances this season...but Kvesic has been class and Robshaw is not safe in that 7 spot post WC

Armitage - Whats to talk about???

Abendanon - Whats to talk about??

Simpson (injury) - Had surgery

Ashton - On his day a quality and experienced attacking player - who will have a field day off ford and Joseph.

Strettle - He continually scores tries...is he ahead of Wade...who knows.

Interesting points on all of them. I would add that adding Waldrom, to the mix of Vunipola and Morgan is having too many specialist 8s in a relatively small squad for the World Cup. Guys like Easter, Haskell and Wood can provide cover for both 8 and other positions such as #6 and the second row which makes them more valuable off the bench.

One young player that I am disappointed didn't make the cut, is Jamie George who I think has been fantastic with the Saracens this season.

 

[Sorcerer]

Glad to see Daly in there.

 

[chippieolamus]

So glad Strettle is in. Honestly think he is England's second best winger besides Nowell (*hides behind cushions*). Happy that Itoje is there also. I probably would've added Roko for Ashton, George for Webber and Ewers for Clark, but otherwise I'm fairly happy.

 

[Anigram]

Overall I'm quite pleased. Great to see Itoje in there, hopefully Eastmond can nail that 12 shirt down and keep Twelvetrees out. I'd swap out Webber - George though, Webber's not been looking at his best lately whereas George has been great all season from what I've seen. Like everyone else has said Ewers would have been a great addition, hopefully he'll be in with shout soon, still no Wade either.

 

[Maverick1987]

Interesting points on all of them. I would add that adding Waldrom, to the mix of Vunipola and Morgan is having too many specialist 8s in a relatively small squad for the World Cup. Guys like Easter, Haskell and Wood can provide cover for both 8 and other positions such as #6 and the second row which makes them more valuable off the bench.

One young player that I am disappointed didn't make the cut, is Jamie George who I think has been fantastic with the Saracens this season.

Do not mention Wood playing 8 again ! Jesus is unhappy with you !

 

[Canuck]

Do not mention Wood playing 8 again ! Jesus is unhappy with you !

lol, I didn't say he should play 8, just that he can provide cover for the position if need be.

 

[Raggs]

No major surprises at all. Even the kids like Itjoe were expected to make the extended squad for experience.

Talking points:

No Ewers - I suspect the love affair with Burgess at 6 has stopped Ewers getting in

Wade - Thought he would have been in...

Waldrom - Hes been class, but I suspect Billy and Ben are the first choice

Clifford - One for the future but has put in some cracking performances this season...but Kvesic has been class and Robshaw is not safe in that 7 spot post WC

Armitage - Whats to talk about???

Abendanon - Whats to talk about??

Simpson (injury) - Had surgery

Ashton - On his day a quality and experienced attacking player - who will have a field day off ford and Joseph.

Strettle - He continually scores tries...is he ahead of Wade...who knows.

If I'm correct, Strettle has managed to continually score all of 7 tries in the AP... Ashton has a high rate at 13, but 5 of those were against Welsh. Ashton has been recalled repeatedly on the back of good premiership form, and then has been repeatedly dropped for poor defence (both positionally and tackling), poor hands, and a near complete inability to beat a defender (doubly so at international). I just don't know what they expect to see from these two. Is Strettle doing anything better than he was when he went to Arg? Is Ashton doing better than he was in the Autumn of 13 when he was on fire?

Pick Wade, tell Farrell to ****ing work with him and make it work. I just feel Lancaster should pick the best players (and Wade, with Roko injured, is it on the right) and then tell Farrell to find a defence that works for them.

From the side that has been selected, I'd like to see either May + Nowell/Yarde or Nowell + Yarde. Nowell and Yarde both get heavily involved with huge workrates, and Yardes defence is looking OK (to me) recently.


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Bloody hell, Strettle has scored 7 tries in the AP. 3 of them were in the very first week against Wasps, and 1 of them was against Welsh last week. What sort of a fecking scoring record is that! 16 starts and subbed on 3 times. He scored 3 tries in 17 of those appearances!

 

[Geordie]

In reference to Strettle....

I did say - Strettle - He continually scores tries...is he ahead of Wade...who knows.

Strettle does score tries in the prem. Maybe not so many this year. He wouldn't be in my squad but I can understand why Lancaster has put him in the extended squad.

As for Wade...I believe he should definitely be in there. If they are worried about his defence...then what better way than working with this group.

As to Farrell I don't think he should be one of the coaches...he doesn't impress me in the slightest...im sure we have better defence coaches around.

 

[Makeshift10]

Shows a real strength in depth that there aren't many weak links in that 50 despite as many as ten top quality omissions (for various reasons!). Very disappointed not to see Ewers, Roko and George given a chance to show what they've got in this company. Always feel Strettle will be underpowered at the top level, whether that be finishing from close range or slipping off the occasional tackle. Can't think of an attribute where Rokoduguni wouldn't outscore him.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Strettle and Ashton are great wingers, in our system. In the England set up it doesn't seem to work, Ashton did score a try against NZ last year but that was in broken play. Strettle doesn't seem to work at all in any England set up. Wade should definitely be used and seen like when he went too Argentina, he was a great link up player, though Strettle actually scored whereas Wade didn't.
It genuinely depends on what Lancaster wants from his wingers. Strettle and Ashton can implement a very good kick chase plan and will finish overlaps. Wade can make something, doesn't matter what is in front of him there is a very real chance he will score.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

In reference to Strettle....

I did say - Strettle - He continually scores tries...is he ahead of Wade...who knows.

Strettle does score tries in the prem. Maybe not so many this year. He wouldn't be in my squad but I can understand why Lancaster has put him in the extended squad.

As for Wade...I believe he should definitely be in there. If they are worried about his defence...then what better way than working with this group.

As to Farrell I don't think he should be one of the coaches...he doesn't impress me in the slightest...im sure we have better defence coaches around.

Wade has walked all year 1 on 1 with the Wasps defence coach to improve, and he is definitely better than Ashton, and similar to Yard, so I can't see why they haven't picked him

Ewers exclusion really annoys me as well, and Walrom should be in if Nick Easter can get in the side.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would rather Thompstone than Strettle or Ashton.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Strettle and Ashton are great wingers, in our system. In the England set up it doesn't seem to work, Ashton did score a try against NZ last year but that was in broken play. Strettle doesn't seem to work at all in any England set up. Wade should definitely be used and seen like when he went too Argentina, he was a great link up player, though Strettle actually scored whereas Wade didn't.
It genuinely depends on what Lancaster wants from his wingers. Strettle and Ashton can implement a very good kick chase plan and will finish overlaps. Wade can make something, doesn't matter what is in front of him there is a very real chance he will score.

To be fair, from what I remember of the Argentina tour, Wade had a great first test, linking really well with, well, everyone- him setting up a try for Twelvetrees sticks in my mind- and then was called up by the Lions, so didn't play in the second test. I was impressed with him tbh, particularly his rucking, weirdly.

 

[yaboyjj]

I think (the cynic inside of me anyway) that the rhetoric surrounding Burgess as a 'hybrid flanker-cum-centre', is being talked about to draw the public's attention off the fact that he is in fact replacing Dave Ewers (pretty much a straight shoot out imo).
He is clearly not going to play as a centre as he was a complete failure there for Bath (lets get real here), however had he just been selected strictly as a flanker, Lancaster would (quite rightly) have been blasted for his inclusion at the expense of more worthy candidates (although I think most would have cited Armitage in the ensuing chaos). Either way, he's nicely diverted attention away from this fact.

RE Marland Yarde, I am not displeased at his inclusion, and the suggestion that this 'injustice' (at the expense of Wade/Roko) is on a par with Strettle/Ashton is, frankly, rubbish. Yes he had a dip in form early/mid season, but he has come back strongly for Harlequins and he has clearly shown (in NZ of all places) that he can mix it with the best (many times he caused the ab's problems). I think he will be pushing Nowell hard for a starting spot- my first choice wing pairing would be: Nowell/May and second choice as Yarde/Watson.
By all means groan about Strettle/Ashton being ahead of Wade (heck, Lewington, Purdy, Thompstone look better players).

RE Watson- has he actually done anything of note yet- I've seen a couple of half breaks, but his apalling defensive efforts and support lines thus far lead me to believe he is not yet ready for international rugby (like for like, May is a better player).

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I think (the cynic inside of me anyway) that the rhetoric surrounding Burgess as a 'hybrid flanker-cum-centre', is being talked about to draw the public's attention off the fact that he is in fact replacing Dave Ewers (pretty much a straight shoot out imo).
He is clearly not going to play as a centre as he was a complete failure there for Bath (lets get real here), however had he just been selected strictly as a flanker, Lancaster would (quite rightly) have been blasted for his inclusion at the expense of more worthy candidates (although I think most would have cited Armitage in the ensuing chaos). Either way, he's nicely diverted attention away from this fact.

It does seem plausible- but then when it was mentioned that Armitage missing out was unfair on current form, he mentioned Ewers as another example of "unfairness", so he's not exactly trying to hide the subject.

 

[Raggs]

No issue with Yarde being there, think he and Nowell in particular could make a ridiculously hardworking wing pairing.

Strettle is the one I don't get. 3 tries that weren't against Welsh, in all but the first game of the season. He was very poor in Arg, blowing try after try. And whilst Wade didn't score any, he had a very significant part in 3 of them. Wade's stats as a winger are exceptional, since not only does he tend to be right at the top of the pile for scoring, but he's normally the winger with the most assists too. He creates for others, not just himself.

I wouldn't necessarily have expected him to get into the 31, just as I hope Strettle doesn't, but I do feel that he'd have been in with a much better shot, and benefited far more from the time with England in the training camp.

 

[Wendigo7]

Have to wonder if Wasps are suffering from same issues Gloucester had with England.

Complete distrust in their players. I can think of one certain individual. XD