England v Italy

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Feb 8 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 7 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thank goodness for that, FT.[/b]

I have predicted England's victory over Italy yes!!!! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Congrats
[/b][/quote]

did you predict such a poor performance though!

 

[alexrugby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 04:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Feb 8 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 7 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thank goodness for that, FT.[/b]

I have predicted England's victory over Italy yes!!!! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Congrats
[/b][/quote]

did you predict such a poor performance though!
[/b][/quote]


NNNooooooo!!!!! I just predicted England's win this match

What about the performance I didn't think at all about it :bulb: :bulb: :cheers: :cheers:

 

[Prestwick]

Okay, I'll post about England's woes tomorrow but...


...can we now just admit that the Bergamasco experiment didn't work, was never going to work and move on.

I understand sympathy and "lets give the guy a go" from some quarters (*cough*Sir Speedy*hack*) but it was getting morbid, like a load of Millitant Animal Rights campaigners trying to save a Fox with only one leg..

..just let it go guys, let it go..

 

[Cymro]

The way Vickery and Sheridan scrummage today was appauling did they learn it at the camell school of scrummaging?

When the loosehead is engaging first before the tighthead then there is porblems at the scrum! Old Moore touched upon this and he was right! England do not possess a quality front 3 at the moment!

 

[alexrugby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 8 2009, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Okay, I'll post about England's woes tomorrow but...


...can we now just admit that the Bergamasco experiment didn't work, was never going to work and move on.

I understand sympathy and "lets give the guy a go" from some quarters (*cough*Sir Speedy*hack*) but it was getting morbid, like a load of Millitant Animal Rights campaigners trying to save a Fox with only one leg..

..just let it go guys, let it go..[/b]

Did he (Bergamasco) look like a 14th century man in a smoking while playing that position???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fa'atau82 @ Feb 7 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate cynical fouls, or fouls that are just embarrasing to watch from a pro rugby player.. that's why i cricitised Haskell. Haskell is a quality player, but lets himself down after he's done all the hard work.. and in rugby, you take the other 14 with you.. more so that a game like soccer IMHO. Sure, we all get sin-binned from time to time, but i just don't like cheating and cynical fouls, not in rugby.[/b]

fair enough, I've been the same in the past with Flannery and Worsley. I'm sure there's others that come to mind.
[/b][/quote]
Marcus Horan. He came close today, but it turned out alright.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Feb 8 2009, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 8 2009, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I'll post about England's woes tomorrow but...


...can we now just admit that the Bergamasco experiment didn't work, was never going to work and move on.

I understand sympathy and "lets give the guy a go" from some quarters (*cough*Sir Speedy*hack*) but it was getting morbid, like a load of Millitant Animal Rights campaigners trying to save a Fox with only one leg..

..just let it go guys, let it go..[/b]

Did he (Bergamasco) look like a 14th century man in a smoking while playing that position???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
[/b][/quote]

Er...why yes, yes he did.

(Whats a 14th century man in a smoking? :huh: )

As for Haskell, I was in the North Stand and even I could see what he did, everyone else was all acting like they were at a football game and being all see no evil, hear no evil, etc when it came to a member of the home team but I was really vocal and went into one.

Bottom line, if he wants to pull crap like that then fine but he should get the full force of the ref and absolutely no sympathy from me. Incredibly stupid play and ironically most of the trips in the past four years have been from Wasps players..

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 8 2009, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Feb 8 2009, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 8 2009, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I'll post about England's woes tomorrow but...


...can we now just admit that the Bergamasco experiment didn't work, was never going to work and move on.

I understand sympathy and "lets give the guy a go" from some quarters (*cough*Sir Speedy*hack*) but it was getting morbid, like a load of Millitant Animal Rights campaigners trying to save a Fox with only one leg..

..just let it go guys, let it go..[/b]

Did he (Bergamasco) look like a 14th century man in a smoking while playing that position???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
[/b][/quote]

Er...why yes, yes he did.

(Whats a 14th century man in a smoking? :huh: )

As for Haskell, I was in the North Stand and even I could see what he did, everyone else was all acting like they were at a football game and being all see no evil, hear no evil, etc when it came to a member of the home team but I was really vocal and went into one.

Bottom line, if he wants to pull crap like that then fine but he should get the full force of the ref and absolutely no sympathy from me. Incredibly stupid play and ironically most of the trips in the past four years have been from Wasps players..
[/b][/quote]

must be why they signed Betsen.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 8 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

and ironically most of the trips in the past four years have been from Wasps players..[/b]

Where's the irony in that? It's deliberate. Only Ankle Cracker Betsen does it better.

p.s. what Tarbh said.

p.p.s. a 14th century smoking man is what Georgians think of Russians, I think.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I just still don't understand why they would even try an experiment like that... in a full fledged international. The skill set required to be a scrum-half and a flanker are totally different. The whole thing is retarded. To me its like taking an Defensive Tackle in Football and asking him to be the Quarterback or like asking a goalie to play as a striker. It just made no sense and that was some of the worst passing I have ever seen. Christ if Italy were that hard up for a scrummy I am sure they could of dug up someone. This is the second stupid experiment Mallett has done. The first was playing Masi at Fly-half last six nations... The whole thing is just so ridiculous. I would of demanded my money back because that was utter ****.

 

[Fa'atau82]

What i don't understand is why he didn't get Mirco (if he wanted a Bergamasco brother so badly) to play 9, as he is a back and would surely be better in passing and knowledge than his brother. I mean, Mauro did his best. You can't fault Mauro for playing at 9 because many players would have refused to play out of position. He's put his place at stake.

I know Super10 can be very poor indeed but i really feel for poor old Toniolatti. I mean, he is a professional 9 he is called-up for playng at 9, and Mallett chose a flanker ahead of him, and i'm sure Mauro wasn't playing like a world class 9 in training.

It's like a transexual beating you to Miss World.

Mallett now has absolutely no reason to play Mauro again for the next match, as you can't really say Mauro had a good game and deserves his place ahead of the other flanks.. and he's destroyed the boy Toniolatti's confidence. It was car crash tv.

Sometimes you take a risk, but as said before.. you might as well play Census Johnston at 15, Matt Dunning at 10 or Peter Stringer as the lineout receiver. Crazyiness!

 

[gingergenius]

in fairness toniolatti came on and played a good game. didn't do anything wrong...

mauro is a better 7 than zanni, he ought to play there next week.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 8 2009, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 8 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and ironically most of the trips in the past four years have been from Wasps players..[/b]

Where's the irony in that? It's deliberate. Only Ankle Cracker Betsen does it better.
[/b][/quote]

The irony is that we expect this kind of Dick Dasterley-esque stuff from the big bad Leicester team yet its the team who paints themselves usually as whiter than white whose been doing the tripping.

Anyway, who the hell cares if it was deliberate or not? Was I defending Haskell? No, I wasn't. Was I agreeing with everyone in saying that it was absolutely stupid, reckless and dispicable. Why yes, yes I was. So when taking that evidence into account, lay off.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

What i don't understand is why he didn't get Mirco (if he wanted a Bergamasco brother so badly) to play 9, as he is a back and would surely be better in passing and knowledge than his brother. I mean, Mauro did his best. You can't fault Mauro for playing at 9 because many players would have refused to play out of position. He's put his place at stake.[/b]

It was a huge risk from Mallet and you could see what was going to happen days away. It was almost as if Jeremy Clarkson was in there doing a Top Gear challenge, thats how spectacularly wrong the whole thing went.

In the end all Mallet has done has severely damaged his reputation in front of the Italians. I mean, Mauro will be all right as his morale is made of adimantium and he would be perfectly happy to play at any position for Italy until doomsday because he's playing for his country.

 

[danit]

no need to say anything about Mauro at 9, just remember what i said some days before the match
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Feb 4 2009, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Italy XV
...
9 Bergamasco Ma. :rahh: :nono7py:

so, if someone was wondering how an italian side could import soccer "catenaccio" into rugby union, that's it (by a southafrican coach... <_< )

England by 32[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Feb 4 2009, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 4 2009, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so it's not a joke then, hey Danit any news on when Canavosio will be available?[/b]

to me, it's still a joke, i couldn't call it otherwise...
[/b][/quote]

indeed, first half has been a joke, NM exposed himself (and Mauro and the team) to ridicule

second half, with a proper scrumhalf (Toniolatti is young, inexperienced, not too talented, not too strong, not at international level and probably never 'll be, but still a proper scrum half), score was 12-5, not bad for Italy that really could have taken advantage from the poor english performance

now for the next game, as Canavosio will not be fit yet, latest news is that Paul Griffen will be called back in the squad

not a bad option, but he was there also before Twickenham game, so as could have been picked Pastormerlo, starting scrumhalf from Padova, a pretty good one, for sure much much better than the extemporaneous Mauro

btw. i hope Toniolatti will start v Ireland, no way to develop italian yougster if the Good Ol' Paul Griffen will start the match

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Feb 8 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

no need to say anything about Mauro at 9, just remember what i said some days before the match
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Feb 4 2009, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Italy XV
...
9 Bergamasco Ma. :rahh: :nono7py:

so, if someone was wondering how an italian side could import soccer "catenaccio" into rugby union, that's it (by a southafrican coach... <_< )

England by 32[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Feb 4 2009, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 4 2009, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so it's not a joke then, hey Danit any news on when Canavosio will be available?[/b]

to me, it's still a joke, i couldn't call it otherwise...
[/b][/quote]

indeed, first half has been a joke, NM exposed himself (and Mauro and the team) to ridicule

second half, with a proper scrumhalf (Toniolatti is young, inexperienced, not too talented, not too strong, not at international level and probably never 'll be, but still a proper scrum half), score was 12-5, not bad for Italy that really could have taken advantage from the poor english performance

now for the next game, as Canavosio will not be fit yet, latest news is that Paul Griffen will be called back in the squad

not a bad option, but he was there also before Twickenham game, so as could have been picked Pastormerlo, starting scrumhalf from Padova, a pretty good one, for sure much much better than the extemporaneous Mauro

btw. i hope Toniolatti will start v Ireland, no way to develop italian yougster if the Good Ol' Paul Griffen will start the match
[/b][/quote]

can you trust Mallet though not to go for more left field selections?

 

[danit]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

can you trust Mallet though not to go for more left field selections?[/b]

after Masi at flyhalf and Mauro Bergamasco at scrumhalf, everybody is expecting Castro at wing, a powerful one tough...

really, i cannot trust anything anymore by Mallet, just hope... (btw he's the worldwide recognised rugby genius, not me...)

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danit @ Feb 8 2009, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can you trust Mallet though not to go for more left field selections?[/b]

after Masi at flyhalf and Mauro Bergamasco at scrumhalf, everybody is expecting Castro at wing, a powerful one tough...

really, i cannot trust anything anymore by Mallet, just hope... (btw he's the worldwide recognised rugby genius, not me...)
[/b][/quote]

that's what I don't get. It's almost like he's using the Italian national side as his own personal lab rat. It's not on.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Sunday Times reports that Martin Johnson says they didn't follow the game plan.

Sack Borthwick from captaincy.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 7 2009, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Oh dear.

Anyone who is Welsh, I will make lots of fun and sheep jokes if we even get within 10 points of you next week.

England base their game plan on route 1 ball carrying, set piece dominance and solid kicking.[/b]

Yep
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

1.
The forwards, with the exception of Haskell, do not make ground ball carrying.[/b]

I disagree, Haskell spent too much of his time when he did get the ball looking for the first opportunity to take contact, then lay all over the ball. Him, Armatidge and Easter were ALL ****. Full stop.

In other news, the way Haskell scooped, nay gouged, the ball up for Ellis' try was magnificent...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Then the ball goes to the backs. Which is ineveitably a miss-pass to Noon smashing up the middle. So then you need quick ball out to the more creative backs who can polish off a disorganised defence.

But we get slow ball, and it nearly always goes to a forward. Or it gets kicked. If it does get to someone with half an imagination, they recieve it standing still with about 3 ft of space.[/b]

Pretty much on the money there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

2.
We clearly cannot scrum any longer... even Vickery & White were being taken apart.[/b]

Vickery and White havn't been able to scrum for years<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Our lineout is the only bright spark, thanks largely to Kennedy.[/b]

Agreed<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

3.
Goode's kicking from hand was poor. Armitage wasn't much better. Goode's ground kicking was poor.[/b]

On the plus side, he was several thousand times better then Cipriani has ever been since Ireland bent over and politely allowed hi9m to caress their arseholes last year... Like that counts for much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

------------------------------

So we need to change our gameplan, or work out a way that we can make it effective. Plus:

Something is very seriously wrong with the front row in terms of scrummaging. Yep. I think it finally became clear that both Mears and Sheridan cannot cut the mustard.

I'm getting more and more convinced that Borthwick isn't up to it. We've known that for years

To all you haters of Harry Ellis.. Foden had a shocker when he came on. Care needs to be wheeled back quickly but Ellis is a decent backup. ********. Ellis scored two tries that came directly from Italian mistakes and even a fat knacker like me could have run one of them on... Under the posts. Foden was clearly using a gameplan set to him with all those box kicks - Never in his life at either 9 or 15 has kicking it aimlessly been his game plan. His service (when he did pass) was both quicker and far more accurate then Low-and-Late managed for the first hour, it was only unfortunate that Gherety was a complete buffoon withing seconds that ruined his afternoon. Slate Foden all you like for using that horrible box kick gameplan, but don't say he was worse then Ellis.

We need to find a 10, but I said Geraghty and he was as bad as Foden when he came on. See above

I'm fed up with Jamie Noon, can we please have Matthew Tait. And Flutey is still unconvincing. Agreed. Even I'm willing to give Tait another chance at 13 now - It can't be worse

The back 3 is currently irrelevant because they aren't involved in the game at all. Speedy, I know you're looking for any oppurtunity to lambast Sackey but tell me what a winger (especially one who is there to finish off tries) is supposed to do in a game where the ball never gets past the centres? We might as well pick a back 3 who act as fielders and returners of kicks, because that's about all we're asking ours to do at the moment. The wingers are largely ignored in Englands gameplan, yes, but Sackey in his pomp 3 years ago during Englands worse time was like droping a lump of coal in a dogshit... Maybe better then all those around him, but CERTAINLY NOT A DIAMOND. JSD and Strettle pleasethanksbye. Then Ojo on the bench.

And some centres, lets say Geherety and Clarke, who actually can do the job and put them in the game.[/b]

 

[danny]

I know all the celts are taking great pleasure in our current sorry state and based on what I saw yesterday at Twickenham we are a long way from championship winners. That said a win is a win and we are top of the table. Watching the game from my seat in the east stand upper tier it was interesting to see the Italians were allowed to be offside on pretty much every England attack. Im not defending our performance but it was difficult enough to play good rugby with Goode and Noone in the backline let alone against a team that lived offside. As for Goodes kicking game, it made me think just what a wrong decision it was to exclude Cipriani. We picked a kicking 10 to gain good position yet he seemed incapable or unwilling to make touch. It wasnt as if Italys line out was up to much and we wanted the put in.
Steffon Armitage, based on yesterdays game looked well short of the class and guile needed for international rugby but it was his first start so perhaps we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. His brother Delon at fullback also looked well out of sorts. He is a confidence player and although he had some good attacking opportunities he didnt seem to be willing to exploit them. The only players to come out of this game with any credit at all were Flutey, Kennedy and the excellent Haskell. Forget the stupid trip, he played his guts out and looked like he really wanted it. If all of the England players showed the same passion and desire we would be in a quite different place. Onwards to Cardiff!!!!??????