England v Italy

[Prestwick]

Danit, what has been the Sunday morning reaction from the fans and media to Mallet's selection.

Is Mallet's honeymoon now well and truly over as I get the feeling that Mallet won't be nominated for the "Best coach in Italy" award this season after yesterday.

My thoughts on the game:

- I've always said Bothwick needs to be just a caretaker captain while they find someone to take the team forward. This is now the most pressing issue personell wise and I'll elaborate on that soon.

- Good debut by Steffon Armitage, less so by Ben Foden but Foden didn't do anything wrong and was probably hamstrung by having Goode to work with so we can't really blame him for that.

- England...to quote the Oracle from the Matrix, they just seem to be waiting for something to happen or someone to galvinise them. I've got a hunch that this is the case as when you saw England vs Ireland last season you had an on fire Cipriani fire everyone up and galvanise the team and suddenly, oh! What do you know? England are awesome! Not saying they need Cipriani but they need a talisman to grab them and fire them up to get them playing. Right now though they just seem to be sleeping on the job.

- Those England forwards. Jesus, those bloody forwards. The only guys who seemed to be running to the break down was Nick Kennedy and Steffon Armitage but everyone else was just wandering over. It was embarrasing at times and you just know that by the time those same England forwards waddle over to the break down against Wales, the Welsh will already be over the try line for their fourth try.

- Cueto had a good re-introduction back to International Rugby and Delon Armitage was as always safe under the high ball and good with ball in hand. Even Sackey, whilst average did come off his wing a lot to look for work. But, as always, the fault with England is never with those backs, its with the forwards.

- The front three were abysmal. Was Lee Mears or Andy Sheridan even playing? What the hell has happened here? We're going to end up selecting our front three from Bristol and Newcastle at this rate because...

- Even the in form players are mis-firing or simply aren't taking their damn chances. I for one would love for Shane Geraghty to claim a starting place on a regular basis but he isn't making it easy for us who press his case. First thing he does after coming on is go and take someone out in mid air. Yes, well done Shane. Foden comes on with high hopes to get things firing and he goes out like a damp squib (again though there are 3rd party issues behind this).

- Why Croft and Tait weren't brought on at the same time as Geraghty or even before is a mystery to me. Croft was one of the few players to really shine in the Autumn Internationals as being the bane of Australia's backs so why the hell hasn't he been put into the fray? Impact sub my arse with all three.

 

[An Tarbh]

I think it was a lot to expect Foden to change the game when coming on, by then the tone of the game was well and truly set, could have been a different kettle of fish had he started the game and been given the chance to dictate the pace of the game himself. Care is a huge loss for next week, problem is though Goode doesn't look like getting dropped.

You defended Johnson for consistency of selection but that is non existent from what I'm looking at and if he goes with that starting lineup next week you'll be looking at the type of hiding you got in Dublin 2 years ago.

 

[Prestwick]

No, no, no. Wait. I wasn't defending Johnson. I was saying that England suffer because of it.

 

[An Tarbh]

ok then, I got the impression you were, my original point was that there was no consistency of selection from England and I still don't see that.

 

[Prestwick]

But there is consistency! Just the wrong consistency! By stating exactly who they want to see in positions, the only thing thats stopping them from fielding the same dull XV weekend in and out are injuries frankly.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I see England as conservative in their consistency and selection and France's as being turbulent and tempestuous in theirs but you see it the exact opposite!

EDIT: Okay, not conservative but consistent for France.

 

[An Tarbh]

it may be consistently wrong selection but it's certainly not consistency in terms of personnel. How many fly halfs in a ridiculously short period of time.

 

[An Tarbh]

Guscott being an utter prick with his comments about Bergamasco. Instead of lambasting him he should be having a go at Mallet. He's such a patronising gimp.

 

[Sir Speedy]

In regards to your conversation yesterday on selection consistently, Keith Wood just said France would have gained more from their loss than England from their win. Now I don't know how relevant that is, or how reliable Keith Wood's word is, but yeh. STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT, ENGLAND! :rahh:

 

[Prestwick]

Its pretty damn relevent actually. Can you mail that to Johnno so he can get a clue..please?

 

[Vambo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Guscott being an utter prick with his comments[/b]

Nothing new there then.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Feb 8 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

In regards to your conversation yesterday on selection consistently, Keith Wood just said France would have gained more from their loss than England from their win. Now I don't know how relevant that is, or how reliable Keith Wood's word is, but yeh. STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT, ENGLAND! :rahh:[/b]

Very true. We wasted what was the perfect oppurtunity to warm up for the big contest next week.

As it was, we played exactly like we did in the autumn; Johnson has tried to pick exactly the same type of team as we did in the Autumn, and we've learnt nothing.

Now, I sound like a stuck record on this, but MATTHEW TAIT. I know a lot of people on here don't rate him.. but the question is... him or Jamie Noon?

The facts speak for themselves: England could not score tries against the SH in the autumn, and barring consolations/ intercepts, we couldn't score in NZ last summer. Now, we had creative half backs, and pacy back 3 players. So the problem clearly lies in the centres. And Tait is a guy who toured NZ, and who played in the RWC final, and on every occasion he looked by quite a long way England's most threatening back. Yet yesterday, we've got the game won, and we decide to bring him on for 8 minutes?

As if putting Worsley on for 30 mins was going to answer questions and open up new possibilities.

I don't mean to sound patronising to Italy, but it was the perfect game to work on something new. England identified a number of major problems in the Autumn which remain with us. And there are players who are fit and offer possible solutions to those problems, and we're not even giving them a go!

Personally I'd like to see what I think would be a replication of the old Carling - Guscott partnership of a nice solid 12 who straightens the line, and a pacy something-from-nothing player at 13. It is a classic combination.

And, surprise surprise, there are 2 players who fit that bill. Jordan Turner-Hall and Matther Tait. Both are young and may inevitably make a few mistakes. But it is high time we pick them together and stick with them because it at least has potential... unlike Flutey - Noon which has none.

I don't know why England have this fetish for a big bosher at 13 anyway.. it might do to remind them that Tindall played 12 in the glory days...

 

[Bullitt]

Quite. But! there's not only Tait and JTH... Also remember Clarke, Hipkiss and Allen who've all completely flown beneith the radar.

 

[danny]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 8 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Feb 8 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In regards to your conversation yesterday on selection consistently, Keith Wood just said France would have gained more from their loss than England from their win. Now I don't know how relevant that is, or how reliable Keith Wood's word is, but yeh. STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT, ENGLAND! :rahh:[/b]

Very true. We wasted what was the perfect oppurtunity to warm up for the big contest next week.

As it was, we played exactly like we did in the autumn; Johnson has tried to pick exactly the same type of team as we did in the Autumn, and we've learnt nothing.

Now, I sound like a stuck record on this, but MATTHEW TAIT. I know a lot of people on here don't rate him.. but the question is... him or Jamie Noon?

The facts speak for themselves: England could not score tries against the SH in the autumn, and barring consolations/ intercepts, we couldn't score in NZ last summer. Now, we had creative half backs, and pacy back 3 players. So the problem clearly lies in the centres. And Tait is a guy who toured NZ, and who played in the RWC final, and on every occasion he looked by quite a long way England's most threatening back. Yet yesterday, we've got the game won, and we decide to bring him on for 8 minutes?

As if putting Worsley on for 30 mins was going to answer questions and open up new possibilities.

I don't mean to sound patronising to Italy, but it was the perfect game to work on something new. England identified a number of major problems in the Autumn which remain with us. And there are players who are fit and offer possible solutions to those problems, and we're not even giving them a go!

Personally I'd like to see what I think would be a replication of the old Carling - Guscott partnership of a nice solid 12 who straightens the line, and a pacy something-from-nothing player at 13. It is a classic combination.

And, surprise surprise, there are 2 players who fit that bill. Jordan Turner-Hall and Matther Tait. Both are young and may inevitably make a few mistakes. But it is high time we pick them together and stick with them because it at least has potential... unlike Flutey - Noon which has none.

I don't know why England have this fetish for a big bosher at 13 anyway.. it might do to remind them that Tindall played 12 in the glory days...
[/b][/quote]
Did you see Tait yesterday??

 

[Prestwick]

I don't know, he was only on for about two minutes...

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Feb 8 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quite. But! there's not only Tait and JTH... Also remember Clarke, Hipkiss and Allen who've all completely flown beneith the radar.[/b]

Indeed. I'd love to see any of those 3 in an England shirt too, just i prefer JTH & MT.

Danny, yeah I saw Tait yesterday... he got about 1 touch of the ball, ran a couple metres and got jumped on... about the most pointless waste of a cap you could wish for.

In fact, Tait's reputation would have lost out yesterday because his blond mop matched Geraghty's, who was playing like a spaz.

 

[danny]

England should worry about creating quick ball rather than who`s playing in the centre cos without that precious quick ball it wouldnt matter if we had Sella and Bunce. They wouldnt have a chance!

 

[Prestwick]

I know, when Shane came on I was like "great! Now we can get this show on the road.." and then he goes and attacks Luke McClean in mid-air and promptly gets binned as a result. Theres been a groundswell of pressure behind playing Shane and this would have been the perfect opportunity for Shane to show Johnno what he's been missing and he goes and wastes his chance.

Like I said, we all want Shane Geraghty in the England starting XV...but he sure as hell isn't helping his case!

 

[An Tarbh]

it was certainly a case with Geraghty and Foden that when they came on they saw they had a chance to change the game and make an impression but they were just over revved and lost the plot a bit. A tad more composure and they could have made a difference even though the woeful tone had already been set.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 9 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Like I said, we all want Shane Geraghty in the England starting XV...but he sure as hell isn't helping his case![/b]

Not true. Some of us want him in the Irish starting XV!

Anyway, what Danny said - quick ball. But I still feel that won't solve the horrible fix England are in. It's amazing - you'd think they'd have stumbled on some reliable use for their backs by now. Law of probability and all that. But ... no.

Mind you, they are top of the table so everyone dismissing their chances (like at the start of RWC) risks looking like an idiot.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 8 2009, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

it was certainly a case with Geraghty and Foden that when they came on they saw they had a chance to change the game and make an impression but they were just over revved and lost the plot a bit. A tad more composure and they could have made a difference even though the woeful tone had already been set.[/b]

Thats basically it really. Ah well, hopefully this hasn't condemed their careers like it with did Mathew Tait.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 8 2009, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 9 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, we all want Shane Geraghty in the England starting XV...but he sure as hell isn't helping his case![/b]

Not true. Some of us want him in the Irish starting XV!
[/b][/quote]

I see what you did there... <_<