England vs Argentina - 05/07/25

[ncurd]

But Ford's not a test match animal.

 

[Geordie]

Ford is just better - and I'm a Quins fan so I'd usually be biased towards Marcus for what it's worth. And he's not a full back.

I honestly can't think of another 10 that would have single handedly won the game against Argentina in the 2023 WC, and his form has been just as good this season.

I'm not really bothered about the Lions so I'm glad Ford is in Arg tbh.

Well your similar to me..I have no interest in the lions. But at the moment...The two fins are ahead and Smith the wild card who can work wonders.

Fin Smith is Ford plus alot more in my opinion...and at such a young age

England are in a freakish position of having 3 insanely good 10s ...

 

[Ddanno]

But Ford's not a test match animal.

You've got me there fella

 

[Ddanno]

Well your similar to me..I have no interest in the lions. But at the moment...The two fins are ahead and Smith the wild card who can work wonders.

Fin Smith is Ford plus alot more in my opinion...and at such a young age

England are in a freakish position of having 3 insanely good 10s ...

Yeah we're probably just going to violently agree with a minor point of difference in the end

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Honestly im a little shocked.

After watching argentina beat the lions, i thought with the numbers that are missing england was on for a hiding.

The first half should be forgotton, it took 40 mins for it to click.

The defence, including last line was outstanding bar a few times we got caught out with argentina going wide.

The attack seemed to change spectacularly over the break,

Nice to see a few new starters showing what they've got on the international stage.

TBF it was a different team. But when you consider this is basically a England B team it was an excellent performance

Defence took the sting out of them and then we opened them up with precision

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What was really promising was how well the front row did. Baxter and Heyes seem to be really growing into international rugby.
Willis is nailed on 8 imo.
Flankers will always be a hard call, but until Martin can stay fit Chessum and Itoje will be out main locks so make it easier to call.


Ford is class, when he is on form I don't think England has ever had a better playmaker.
Disagree Fin Smith is Ford and more. Fin is a much better defender but he's still got much to learn.
Ford will prob go down as the most underrated England player.

Also it's a shame Steward defence is so weak because (I know I'm biased here) his improvement has been insane especially from an attack POV his passing is better, his carrying is better. He really could be a perfect 12 for England as he can crash ball and he's starting to help in the playmaking but I just don't see Tigers moving him

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Blackett will be a interesting one, feel he is perfect attack coach for England as his teams also play a similar power game.
But also feel Bath prob know JVG is destined to return back to SA sooner rather than later and Blackett is certainly the successor in their eyes

 

[odw26]

That's an excellent result, well done.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Blackett will be a interesting one, feel he is perfect attack coach for England as his teams also play a similar power game.
But also feel Bath prob know JVG is destined to return back to SA sooner rather than later and Blackett is certainly the successor in their eyes

Best thing to do for English rugby would be to suspend Bath Rugby from the sport of Rugby Union and redistribute their players and staff

 

[Which Tyler]

A] Blackett will be a interesting one, feel he is perfect attack coach for England as his teams also play a similar power game.
B] But also feel Bath prob know JVG is destined to return back to SA sooner rather than later and Blackett is certainly the successor in their eyes

A] Nope, take Vesty
B] This may be why A]

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A] Nope, take Vesty
B] This may be why A]

How about you take Wigglesworth? Part exchange Wigglesworth + A shiny new Range Rover for Blackett?

 

[Which Tyler]

No deal, Wiggles is yours anyway

 

[BPM]

I need to see the game, but I posted earlier, it was a set up that if they got it right would work very well. It looks to have worked in the second half more than the first.

How many players were Argentina missing or didn't select?

I think it's mostly 'didn't select'. Not sure if they wanted to experiment or whether it was a bit of complacency given the inexperience of our side?

They weren't wholesale changes from the side that beat the Lions though - the halfbacks and Sclavi were the main personnel changes IIRC? Carreras played but at 15. Picking him at 10 definitely helped England.

Next week will be a cracking game. I assume Albornoz will be back at 10 and they'll be fired-up. England will need another step-up on last night's performance but a series win would be immense.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think it's mostly 'didn't select'. Not sure if they wanted to experiment or whether it was a bit of complacency given the inexperience of our side?

The halfbacks and Sclavi were the main personnel changes IIRC? Carreras played but at 15. Picking him at 10 definitely helped England.

Next week will be a cracking game. I assume Albornoz will be back at 10 and they'll be fired-up. England will need another step-up on last night's performance but a series win would be immense.

I think from the 23 that played v the lions
7 starters missing and 2 off the bench

Apparently the half backs are being given this whole series off

 

[Which Tyler]

One thing I want to add, about the difference in England at half time...
First half, it looked to me that Spencer and Ford just weren't playing off each other well - not in terms of decision making, but in that Ford wasn't standing where Spencer was expecting him to be, and Spencer was putting the ball where Ford wanted it. That slight disconnect that meant Ford was losing momentum as the ball arrived, to catch a ball slightly behind him, or uncomfortably high etc, taking away his time to do anything with it.

Second half, that didn't seem to be an issue at all, and I wonder if the two of them had a chat about exactly that at HT.
JvP has obviously played with Ford a lot more at club level, and didn't seem to have that problem.

Which also makes me wonder if I was harsh on Spencer last night, seeing what I expected to see in the first half, and then just going with my bias.

 

[Which Tyler]

A further note on penalties, only 6, with Gardner on the whistle, and at least 2 of the penalties given being more to do with a fevered imagination, than happenings on the pitch (Atkinson onside and Slade(?) not being swallowed by the ground on arrival).
That's seriously impressive discipline by the team, and seriously good ref-management by the 2 captains.

 

[saulan]

Man this Argentina team frustrates me so much. They turn up to play against their other SH opponents (they won a match each against NZ, Aus and SA last year) but then when there is a touring England (with all due respect given the Lions) B side they don't pitch up and get smashed.

I thought it was weird in the EOYT discussions last year that NH fans weren't as worried for the Argentina games vs the others and when these kind of engagements is their main interaction with the team, I'm actually not surprised.

 

[Which Tyler]

Are you suggesting that they choked on the favourites tag?
TBF, if so, they wouldn't be the first, and it's not like they're accustomed to that tag against tier 1 opponents.

 

[saulan]

Are you suggesting that they choked on the favourites tag?
TBF, if so, they wouldn't be the first, and it's not like they're accustomed to that tag against tier 1 opponents.

Sort of. I'm my perspective is they pitch up and play well relatively consistently vs SH teams nowadays but are way less consistent and poorer against NH teams.

This may just be a short term perspective I have without looking at the data and this result plays into that perspective. But getting so convincingly beaten here while playing at home against a team significantly weakened by Lions call-ups is really disappointing.

 

[BPM]

I think there is an element of that for sure. I'm not sure the emotion they put into these fixtures works well for them either.