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England vs New Zealand

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 21 2009, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
6 - 16

F*£"%*£$^"*"£% - wilkinson misses a drop goal and chucks away all our hardwork getting to within metres of the try line[/b]

So England were behind by 10 points and Wilkinson goes for a drop goal? I know alot of people love Wilkinson's dropped goals, but I for one think he usually wastes good ball available to attack with! Anyone else think he attampts too many without at least first trying to score a try? I know he get's the majority of them, but 7 points is better than 3.
 
Another f***ing **** performance from England.

I know everyone is going to go on about how much better we were than last week and blah blah blah, but that's really just a smokescreen. Today, we chased our kicks well and blitzed well in defence, which put NZ under pressure.

But aside from that, it was same old same old. The only reason we weren't down by more is because New Zealand played awfully as well. Carter missed some very easy kicks. They fumbled the ball on several occasions.

England still look absolutely clueless in attack, and a lot of it is thanks to Wilkinson. In the 1st half we had quick ball and great field position and JW f***s it all up by taking a second to try a drop goal before thinking better of it. In the 2nd half, the same but this time we're 10m out, he actually does take the dg and also misses it.

There were numerous other occasions when we were looking good before yet another handling error cost us.

The post-match interviews gave the impression that England were patting themselves on the back for being more passionate. Fact is, they should take a look back at that game and think "That was a very poor NZ performance. Losing by that margin, and not even scoring a try, is not good enough".

On to players - thought Hartley, Shaw and Borthwick were effective. Croft and Moody were good too. Haskell needs to stop doing good things then ruining them with an error.

Wilkinson had a shocker. Erinle and Hipkiss were ineffective. Monye was much better, Cueto excellent, and I think Geraghty's confirmed his future role for England lies in being an impact sub. Banahan was **** again.

Looking at the NZ players, none of them stood out. Carter was very poor. If NZ had played like this against Wales, you might have seen an upset.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 21 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
England still look absolutely clueless in attack, and a lot of it is thanks to Wilkinson. In the 1st half we had quick ball and great field position and JW f***s it all up by taking a second to try a drop goal before thinking better of it. In the 2nd half, the same but this time we're 10m out, he actually does take the dg and also misses it.[/b]

Not just me then..........
 
Alot better game than last week at least both sides were trying to play some Rugby. I think England played a good first half but as always the All Blacks come out in the 2nd half with more energy.

I think Carter for his standards had a average game did a few silly kicks like kicking a penalty out in the opposite ingoal and a few chip kicks that ended up gaining 10m just to land in Englands hands. Also Jimmy Cowan had a Andy Ellis game he got shut down a few times around the ruck and needed to get the ball sent out faster from the ground and not cradle than pass it.

Who's that guy that came on for the no.12? I thought he was pretty good and they should of started him. Mils had a good game too haven't seen him play like that for a while. Our scrum was much better with Woodcock and Owen Franks but I think there was 2 maybe 3 times Owen kicked the ball and ended up giving it over to England but still a awesome performance.
 
For all of Carter's missed kciks he was still able to produce some genius, such as the deft little chip to Guildford. He also seems to slip through more tackles than is reasonable for the size that he is. I was really impressed with Nonu as i think he had some great hands and showed that he is more than just a battering ram in midfield. McCaw again was outstanding especially in the defence when England were pressing towards the line, so tenacious.
 
Found a new site that has the Complete matches on sale. Think they work with RFU. Say they have the match 48 hours after whistle so I will add to the 4 I got. On DVD recordable because it is on demand but quality picture as it is from Sky broadcast. Onedvd-rugby.com. Go some great wins on there from years past so I can at least remember the good times. Got previews with a great clips of Greenwood shimmying past the boks
M
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 21 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Another f***ing **** performance from England.

I know everyone is going to go on about how much better we were than last week and blah blah blah, but that's really just a smokescreen. Today, we chased our kicks well and blitzed well in defence, which put NZ under pressure.

But aside from that, it was same old same old. The only reason we weren't down by more is because New Zealand played awfully as well. Carter missed some very easy kicks. They fumbled the ball on several occasions.

England still look absolutely clueless in attack, and a lot of it is thanks to Wilkinson. In the 1st half we had quick ball and great field position and JW f***s it all up by taking a second to try a drop goal before thinking better of it. In the 2nd half, the same but this time we're 10m out, he actually does take the dg and also misses it.

There were numerous other occasions when we were looking good before yet another handling error cost us.

The post-match interviews gave the impression that England were patting themselves on the back for being more passionate. Fact is, they should take a look back at that game and think "That was a very poor NZ performance. Losing by that margin, and not even scoring a try, is not good enough".

On to players - thought Hartley, Shaw and Borthwick were effective. Croft and Moody were good too. Haskell needs to stop doing good things then ruining them with an error.

Wilkinson had a shocker. Erinle and Hipkiss were ineffective. Monye was much better, Cueto excellent, and I think Geraghty's confirmed his future role for England lies in being an impact sub. Banahan was **** again.

Looking at the NZ players, none of them stood out. Carter was very poor. If NZ had played like this against Wales, you might have seen an upset.[/b]

Our main issue is that there are no inside centres left in England. There's no way our backs could ever play with ball as our only two quality inside centres - Turner-Hall and Flutey - are both injured. Was content with the performance given we had so many injuries. Our defense was excellent too. Aside from that:

Positives of the series:

- Hodgson looks to have nailed down the 9 shirt, finally got some consistant quick ball for us to play with, unfortunately, we didn't play with it.

- Our front row looks competitive enough, even though we're down to 3rd choice. Gives experience to players so in another injury crisis they can step up.

- We now know for sure that Payne, Deacon and Crane are not good enough for England, and that Care and Banahan are not ready yet.

- We know Cueto is a quality option at full-back for the future.

- Our back-row looks very good. at blindside we have Worsley and Croft who are both quality operators in their different ways, at openside we have Moody, Armitage and Rees who all have their advantages and at 8 we can choose between the leadership and brawn of Easter or the dynamism and athleticism of Haskell ( who i think can become a quality 8 with a bit more experience).

- Defense was very good throughout. Wilkinson and Moody shined above others but everyone played their part. Mike Ford seems to be doing his job well.

- We know that Geraghty is not a centre, Erinle is not an inside centre and Monye is not a fullback.

Negatives of the series:

- Despite putting in hard work up the field, as soon as we get into the 22 we seem scared of the try-line.

- We have no depth at inside centre.

- Half our backline cannot catch

- Our locks were pretty useless

- We have no attacking moves

- Wilkinson lacks the confidence to play flat

- As soon as we sense trouble, it's back to the old pod and this lead to several turnovers and New Zealand's second try.

- Tactical kicking was poor, though improvements vs. New Zealand

- No international standard outside centre. Erinle - not long term option, Hipkiss - can't give a pass wide, Tindall - doesn't do enough, Tait - not performing well enough for Sale at the moment.

- Johnson lacks the confidence to make big tactical decisions i.e. not bringing Lawes on against Argentina, leaving Lawes out of the squad for New Zealand, putting Goode and Erinle on the bench instead of Tait and Foden against Australia and Argentina, picking Payne ahead of the second best tighthead in the league Dave Flatman.
 
Everyone goes on about how bad Carter played... Take another look from the 55th minute on, he was the difference for NZ winning... 1 bad game out of 10, thats a nice average if you ask me
 
Was a good match i felt , would not be too hard with england . they pressurised quite well AB . If Wilkinson would have been in a better day , there was some good situations to win the match .

AB no surprises really ...Like australia and SA , they seemed a little bit running out of gas in this end of year but always ready to fight ;) . though they made a lot of unusual mistakes (for a part because of the english pressure) .

That will be an interesting fight in Marseille next Saturday...
 
ABs haven't let a try in during the AI's in ages I think it shows it's because of their defence why they keep winning. Their attacking skills aren't as sharp as recent times but defensively they're are still awesome.

I think if young Zac Guildford can keep stringing good performances like he has been he could cement his place in the team. He has good pace and is steady under the high ball and his chasing is good. Sivivatu is also looking very dangerous again and unfortunately for Corey Jane it looks like he could be in and out of the starting lineup.

Got England out of the way I'm happy now I don't really mind it we lose the remaining games as long as we get to stick it to the Poms for another year or until they decide to come down under and take us on :p
 
First of all congrats to Carter getting the points scoring record for the All Blacks!

ABs did play a lot better, but it seems this year and last year, when they play expansive and they getting into scoring situations either from building pressure or after making a break away, they always seem to force the error! it was a much prettier game but it was still frustrating at the amount of dropped balls, could have easily scored a another try or two.

England on the other hand showed a lot of heart and passion, scramble well in defense and chased well on kicks. Thought their halfback had a great game!

Banahan big winger, came off the line well in defense (great hit early in the game), chased kick offs well, but dropped a couple easy balls though, looked clueless at times.

Wilkinson.. wtf was he thinking with that dropped goal, 5-10m out surely gotten go for the try when you're 10 points down. Very poor decision making, captain needs to tell him off!, though he was awesome on defense! Maybe if England get within 22m line the forwards should just pick and go rather than use the backline because Wilkinson will just do a drop goal and **** everyone off.

Half back was awesome!

Sivivatu showed glimpses of how fast he can be and how elusive he is when he created that try.

Cowan is just a dick. Needs to take a chill pill.

Guilford was probably nervous but he showed great pace!

Better game than last week so it was pleasing! scrum!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (candybum @ Nov 21 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
First of all congrats to Carter getting the points scoring record for the All Blacks! Amen to that

ABs did play a lot better, but it seems this year and last year, when they play expansive and they getting into scoring situations either from building pressure or after making a break away, they always seem to force the error! it was a much prettier game but it was still frustrating at the amount of dropped balls, could have easily scored a another try or two. Lets not forget that the weather put any hopes of open running rugby to bed

England on the other hand showed a lot of heart and passion, scramble well in defense and chased well on kicks. Thought their halfback had a great game! Hodgson was very good, the one critisism I'd make was in some of his kicks were poorly directed or they went either too far or not far enough

Banahan big winger, came off the line well in defense (great hit early in the game), chased kick offs well, but dropped a couple easy balls though, looked clueless at times. I'm wondering who is more overrayed, Bananaman or Vainakolo. Once Armatige returns to full fitness I'd be surprised ih he plays many more games for England.

Wilkinson.. wtf was he thinking with that dropped goal, 5-10m out surely gotten go for the try when you're 10 points down. Very poor decision making, captain needs to tell him off!, though he was awesome on defense! Maybe if England get within 22m line the forwards should just pick and go rather than use the backline because Wilkinson will just do a drop goal and **** everyone off. Was a baffling choice for him to make, but he tackled well and his set play kicking was much better

Half back was awesome!

Sivivatu showed glimpses of how fast he can be and how elusive he is when he created that try. He did look mightily impressive

Cowan is just a dick. Needs to take a chill pill. He's a scrum half, all scrum halfs are dicks!

Guilford was probably nervous but he showed great pace! Showing potential, should be a long term winger for the AB's

Better game than last week so it was pleasing! scrum!![/b]

I'll add that I thought Moody was great, was genuinley good to see 2 top notch no. 7's in operation.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Nov 22 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
19:6 well well well quite enough to say ABs played well[/b]

Isaiah 19:6 -

"The canals will emit a stench,
The streams of Egypt will thin out and dry up;
The reeds and rushes will rot away."

Sums it up, really.
 
I think this was an improvment from the All Blacks, but we hardly look invincible.
Cater played fine, but not to his usual high standards.
Comrad Smith and Ma'a nonu shows why they are an amazing combination, as on defence Smith does copybook tackles, and on attack Nonu's passing game looks to have really improved.
On the wing, I still think Sivivatu could have been more dangerous at times, but he has definetly improved. I still prefer Jane over Guildford, however Guildford seems like a good development option (though I'd go with Jane in France).
McCaw shows why he is the best #7 in the world again.
Thompson did all right, however still no clear decision between him and Kaino.
Franks did really well in the scrum I thought.
Mils had his best game in a long time, looks like he may make 100 tests, especially if his counter attacking is as effective as it was today.

I liked how the AB's looked to counter attack more then kick, and i believe that this payed off much better. I believe that we need to keep improving, and instead of scoring 1 try per match, try and play a little but more openly and take a few more risks, especially when the game is ending. We looks like the team who will play clinical and boring rugby, that will win a RWC.

For England I believe they are making improvments, but the backs still seem like sh*t. Wilkinson seems like he was trying to do too much, and it resulted in him not playing his best game. I think Carter put Wilkinson under alot of pressure, which was effective.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 22 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I liked how the AB's looked to counter attack more then kick, and i believe that this payed off much better. I believe that we need to keep improving, and instead of scoring 1 try per match, try and play a little but more openly and take a few more risks, especially when the game is ending. We looks like the team who will play clinical and boring rugby, that will win a RWC.[/b]

As long as they don't drop the ball!.. well drop it forward anyways
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 22 2009, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Did you say that in this thread? Didn't see where to be honest.[/b]
I think he says it in every England thread. To be honest he's usually close enough :)

Incidently, I presume Cowen is going to be cited and banned for 12 weeks for his hand on the face trick yesterday? We have to protect the eyes now dont we.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Nov 22 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 22 2009, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did you say that in this thread? Didn't see where to be honest.[/b]
I think he says it in every England thread. To be honest he's usually close enough :)

Incidently, I presume Cowen is going to be cited and banned for 12 weeks for his hand on the face trick yesterday? We have to protect the eyes now dont we.
[/b][/quote]Yeah that was just stupid from Cowan it was unnecessary and he does knuckle headed things like that alot. Also Tim Payne should be cited for punching in the ruck it's a wonder why no one really mentioned it. I know there wasn't much in it but it was enough for Jonathan Kaplan to react and give a penalty.
 

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