English clubs threaten USA - All Blacks in Chicago

[goodNumber10]

Well you've been dealing as good as you've been receiving on the personal front but nice way to change the issue and make yourself a victim.

Have I? where is that then?

It's not a point of view that can be disagreed on as PD said you are arguing that 1+1=3 it's not an opinion, it's a fact. a.k.a. Canada beat U.S.A. 16-9 on May 25th 2013 is a fact. "Canada played poorly in that matchup" would be an opinion.

It's not my opinion that those two games were played outside the test window, it's a fact based on overwheling evidence, that you have utterly failed to prove otherwise.

Unless you have an official document from the IRB explicitly stating the 2013 June window then it is all just informed opinion. That goes for me as well.

The only factual evidence presented in all off this is the IRB regulations and that proves neither sides point as it is open to interpretation.

 

[psychic duck]

Well you've been dealing as good as you've been receiving on the personal front but nice way to change the issue and make yourself a victim.

It's not a point of view that can be disagreed on as PD said you are arguing that 1+1=3 it's not an opinion, it's a fact. a.k.a. Canada beat U.S.A. 16-9 on May 25th 2013 is a fact. "Canada played poorly in that matchup" would be an opinion.

It's not my opinion that those two games were played outside the test window, it's a fact based on overwheling evidence, that you have utterly failed to prove otherwise.

He's just wasting our time now, we could get Brett Gosper to personally ring him and he'd probably still be sticking to his completely inaccurate statement. The evidence of an expert on Canadian rugby, the USA Rugby CEO and the official IRB Reg. 9 itself has all been presented, yet still goodNumber10 is asking for more, which is a bit cheeky considering that he himself has not produced one source or anything to suggest the contrary.

 

[Peat]

Gods, and I thought this thread was bad tempered first time around...

Btw - specific competitions can be designated as test windows - but that doesn't mean that every other international game happening at the same falls into the test window.

 

[Shaggy]

This is why we need to think about disbanding tournaments like the 6 nations and RC or at least moving them to alternative years.
Have a real variety in tests and make these old traditions really special and unique not just a yearly permanent fixture.
I'm personally bored of watching the same internationals every year, and there are plenty of others. That's why i love it when a world class unique club game is played, it's something different and exciting.
These t2 nations can't even play competitive tests against each other because the international fixture list is so full because of the yearly tournaments. It's not because of the club fixtures either, even if the NH fixture list was similar to the SH there still wouldn't be enough time for the yearly events plus competitive tests for t2 against t2 and lower t1's.
Rant Over!!!

The only real argument is the financial one. Otherwise there is not incentive to stop these guys playing more against everybody. If they are able to get up to a good level then the market will expand anyway and then it will move on to next tier and so on.

Edit:
Financial argument meaning that these tournaments are money makers for the top international teams, not that there wouldn't be financial incentive to play tier 2 timers which would be a disgusting argument.
Find other ways to make money, international rugby isn't supposed to be about making money, or even supporting your whole countries rugby system which i find ridiculous because it effectively leaves the IRB with no choice but to let you keep your money makers or else you would go broke and your rugby system would go broke when you shouldn't be reliant on these methods in the first place. So think before you criticise the IRB, they have no choice. Find other ways to support your countries rugby selfish a**h**s.

Say's who? ... that's exactly what it's about/has to be about since Rugby became professional ... Where's the money supposed to come from otherwise? Sponsorship? ... Sponsors want something in return (AIG - All Blacks v USA), TV deals (yes, they actually want you play matches). Perhaps the next level down provincial/club? Well they are professional too, and require the same financing issues and sources. The simple facts are, that no Rugby nations are exactly the same, and all of them choose/are forced to use the best model for them to stay solvent.

Like I pointed out earlier NZ (for example) has to rely on these extra fixtures for their income, they don't have the population or economic strength that some other nations have to support their Rugby solely by other methods, but they do have the All Black brand, so it makes financial sense for any business (yes the national unions are businesses) to harness or utilize any resource that they have at their disposal.

I guess financial subsidies from the IRB is an option ... or doing away with professional Rugby all together, and going back to the Amateur days.

 

[goodNumber10]

Gods, and I thought this thread was bad tempered first time around...

This thread:


That's me in the lead

 

[smartcooky]

Who's the highly knowledgable Canadian Rugby Observer? The guy who sent me a stroppy message and a vote down because i won't agree with him?

I really can't be bothered to keep this discussion going. The IRB window in 2013 ran for way more than 3 weeks, the final lions test was on the 6h of July, the first Lions test was the 1st of June, thats 6 weeks. That proves in itself the Test window was not the normal 3 weekends in June during year 2013.

IRB reg 9 has a change clause Written in, the "unless" statement. The 2013 test windwo ran from 25/26 may till 6th July.

Wrong again. The Lions has it own designated release

[TEXTAREA]9.6 Designated Release Events
The Right to Release for Matches applies to the Designated Release
Events set out below whenever such Designated Release Events are
held. All Players selected to participate in Designated Release Events
shall be released.
(a) Union Designated Release Events:
(i) The quadrennial Rugby World Cup Tournament and
qualification Matches.
(ii) The quadrennial Rugby World Cup Sevens event.
(iii) An Olympic Sevens Rugby event and qualification Matches.
(b) Combined Teams Designated Release Events:
(i) The quadrennial British and Irish Lions Tour is a Designated
Event and all Players selected to participate shall be released.
The Release Period shall ordinarily commence on 1 June and
ordinarily conclude on the 2nd weekend of July in the relevant
year.
(ii) The quadrennial Tour of the Combined Team of the Pacific
Islands Unions (Fiji, Samoa and Tonga) is a Designated Event
and all Players selected to participate shall be released. The
Tour will take place in the November window in the relevant
year[/TEXTAREA]

 

[norcalbuff]

You can add a close follower of American rugby to those who know the test window was not in effect for the USA-Canada PNC match last year.

 

[smartcooky]

The crux of this whole argument is that England are no worse than NZ or any other nation when it comes to player release.

Thing is, you couldn't make a thread "New Zealand Provinces threaten England v Samoa in London" for a match to be played outside any iRB window because you will not ever find a single example of any NZ Province or Franchise failing to release players for international duty.

On the one occasion that this happened, when the Bay of Plenty Union tried to withhold two Samoan players from a Samoa training camp and test match DURING the NPC, and outside any iRB window, the NZRU overuled them and instructed their release to be granted.

 

[LittleGuy]

You can add a close follower of American rugby to those who know the test window was not in effect for the USA-Canada PNC match last year.

It's gone beyond all rhyme or reason, he's literally incapable of admitting he's incorrect. My guess is he thinks he's dug in his heels so much at this point he might as well alienate 4-5 members of the forum rather than look stupid getting off that horse. It's like arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

Psychic is bang on, when we have quotes from the USA Rugby CEO that prove our point and he refuses to accept them it's just become a waste of time.

 

[goodNumber10]

Dude, seriously get over yourself, why do you have to make it into a personal attack? The discussion is well over and you're still going laboring the discussion with stuff that's nothing to do with it anymore and questioning someones mental health etc....

It's just a disagreement over semantics on an internet forum not the first on here and it won't be the last. Rugby is our passion, that's why we're posting here, when you talk about things you're passionate about people will argue. Regardless, if i'm right or wrong, if that somehow upsets you so much then seriously, you need to have a look at yourself.

I suggest we leave it there have a great day.

 

[Big Ewis]

‎â€This is my advice to people: Learn how to cook, try new recipes, learn from your mistakes, be fearless, and above all have funâ€-Julia Child
​

No idea who that bish was, but...

 

[goodNumber10]

hehe!

 

[Shaggy]

Well the Official confirmation for the USA v All Blacks match has been made http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/10040008/All-Blacks-confirm-USA-test-match-in-Chicago ... I'll have to save my pennies and see if I can go now

 

[Adakins]

I will be going myself, I will call out sick if my boss doesn't give me that weekend off!

 

[The Jones Boy]

Massively over-simplistic view. The agreements regarding the release of players outside of the international windows by Premiership clubs have been in place a lot longer than this game has been scheduled. The clubs cannot release players for games outside of the window for fear of financial and points penalties, which serve a good purpose for the interests of fairness in the league.

The All Blacks didn't need to schedule the game outside of the international window. Why couldn't they have decided to play an international game within one of the designated periods for international rugby. Perhaps they'd rather take the safe buck that comes from touring in Europe over trying to expand the game in North America. What a bunch of arseholes!

Somebodys still sore about getting their backside smacked hard in the Autumn test, haw haw haw
Sour grapes are haemorrhoid forming, haw haw haw from the Great McCaw.
The All Blacks are the BIGGEST BRAND in world rugby, where they go, a crowd forms because they are entertainment from the haka to the final whistle.
Going to America is a brilliant idea to develop the game.
Chicago has a real groundswell of amateur rugby and this is the kind of fixture that allows the local rugby to build on the momentum and the cash injection.
It follows recent tours of Canada and America by the NZ Maori.

 

[smartcooky]

Somebodys still sore about getting their backside smacked hard in the Autumn test, haw haw haw
Sour grapes are haemorrhoid forming, haw haw haw from the Great McCaw.
The All Blacks are the BIGGEST BRAND in world rugby, where they go, a crowd forms because they are entertainment from the haka to the final whistle.
Going to America is a brilliant idea to develop the game.
Chicago has a real groundswell of amateur rugby and this is the kind of fixture that allows the local rugby to build on the momentum and the cash injection.
It follows recent tours of Canada and America by the NZ Maori.

Two things Jonesy

1. Posts exhibiting this sort of hubris make me want to cringe, and they are one of the reasons why Kiwi posters get a bad rep on internet rugby forums.

2. I would not call that Autumn test a botty smacking! We were damned lucky that it didn't end up as a draw, double-damned lucky we didn't lose.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I assume that there is going to be a top level ref for this... the guy who was in charge of the Maori vs Eagles game last year was abysmal - I actually had genuine concerns about his impartiality (whether intentional or not).

 

[smartcooky]

I assume that there is going to be a top level ref for this... the guy who was in charge of the Maori vs Eagles game last year was abysmal - I actually had genuine concerns about his impartiality (whether intentional or not).

It was Chris Asmuss (Canada). Not a top level referee, but then USA v NZ Maori was not a test match.

I expect an iRB International Panel referee would be appointed for this one.

 

[goodNumber10]

Holy Moly, have we done this tosh yet?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Holy Moly, have we done this tosh yet?

Oh God.
I'd seen that posted on facebook a few times but not actually watched it. I've never cringed so hard at an advert in my life.

USA are going to get absolutely decimated.