English rugby plots revolutionary changes to expand new ‘franchise-style’ Premiership

[Saintjay]

do causal fans actually like more points? Obviously there is a sweet spot but tries stop being special if people score all the time.

People want something they understand. And rugby had just made the game more complicated in hopes of creating more scoring.

Tough one, it's probably not just casual fans. Look at the grief Borthwick got on here and else where for the lack of attacking rugby. Dull, predictable etc.

The sport has a reputation of kick and clap as it is. As a fan I get how people can find joy in a 9-3 slug fest. Put that's one for the purists. Modern sport is just as much an entertainment industry now. The problem is working out what's entertainment for the masses of casual fans that prem rugby desperately needs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Tough one, it's probably not just casual fans. Look at the grief Borthwick got on here and else where for the lack of attacking rugby. Dull, predictable etc.

The sport has a reputation of kick and clap as it is. As a fan I get how people can find joy in a 9-3 slug fest. Put that's one for the purists. Modern sport is just as much an entertainment industry now. The problem is working out what's entertainment for the masses of casual fans that prem rugby desperately needs that's the issue.

TBH If I'm a coach paid by results I'll set up the team to do whatever it takes to win.

That said, attacking rugby and ambition's great. Who doesn't want to see that? But what I object to is the cr*p defence and cheap tries (and the tedium of 5m line outs). Attack and defence aren't mutually exclusive and I want to see a proper fight between the 2.

Bit like short form (and even some test) cricket. There's such an imbalance between bat and ball that the game's managed to become spectacular and dull at the same time.

 

[Ddanno]

TBH If I'm a coach paid by results I'll set up the team to do whatever it takes to win.

That said, attacking rugby and ambition's great. Who doesn't want to see that? But what I object to is the cr*p defence and cheap tries (and the tedium of 5m line outs). Attack and defence aren't mutually exclusive and I want to see a proper fight between the 2.

Bit like short form (and even some test) cricket. There's such an imbalance between bat and ball that the game's managed to become spectacular and dull at the same time.

Absolutely agree, being a boring ******** both sides of the ball has had its time

 

[McTallshort]

Some of the best games of rugby are low scoring because good sides cancel each other out, that's not to say there isn't a massive amount of drama/controversy/ heart break. I'm currently working in Ireland and went to the Leinster towns final on Sunday and it was only 18-17 but is was such an intense and passionate game, there was a crowd of about 3k all fired up and I would take that over some one sided hammering in the premiership any day.

 

[stus768]

Still wouldn't allow a lot of time or energy to get to a prem fixture, and probably has a detrimental effect on amateur game attendance to boot. I wish I could be more constructive.

I think a lot of people would like to 'get rugby out of the way' earlier in the day and free up the rest of the day for their social life/family so could positively effect numbers. Would have a negative effect on bar income though. But even if you can't go to a game it at least frees you up to watch. We have to do it during six nations anyway because for some stupid reason we're the only country in the six nations that still has amateur league games during six nations weekends.

Lots of other sports seem to do it. Football and hokey clubs near me have to do it because of the number of teams.

 

[Ddanno]

I think a lot of people would like to 'get rugby out of the way' earlier in the day and free up the rest of the day for their social life/family

I get your point but that's a pretty depressing sentiment

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I think in terms of the better amateur games I've done as a referee the ones I've enjoyed the most are where both teams score between 15 and 30 points. Means teams are attacking well but also coming up with great stops. You can also sense the emotion change throughout the match and how teams aren't frustrated with not scoring but also care about each score.

 

[McTallshort]

I think a lot of people would like to 'get rugby out of the way' earlier in the day and free up the rest of the day for their social life/family so could positively effect numbers. Would have a negative effect on bar income though. But even if you can't go to a game it at least frees you up to watch. We have to do it during six nations anyway because for some stupid reason we're the only country in the six nations that still has amateur league games during six nations weekends.

Lots of other sports seem to do it. Football and hokey clubs near me have to do it because of the number of teams.

Not sure about that. Thinking back to my playing days I don't remember anyone thinking like that apart from my ex wife. Everyone was up for it and the drink after was very much part of it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And in other turkeys not voting for Christmas news, Dowson also coming out in favour of the franchise model.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bet he's looking forward to being part of the coaching staff for the East Midland Tigersaints

 

[Ddanno]

Has to be a done deal at this stage, but it's going to get very ugly. I don't see Falcons, Quins, Exeter or Tigers going for it (among others) and getting PRL to agree will be a living nightmare

 

[Flankers' paradise]

Has to be a done deal at this stage, but it's going to get very ugly. I don't see Falcons, Quins, Exeter or Tigers going for it (among others) and getting PRL to agree will be a living nightmare

what makes you think so? It's the best shot falcons (and others) have at long-term secure investment

 

[TRF_Olyy]

what makes you think so? It's the best shot falcons (and others) have at long-term secure investment

I'd be surprised if Falcons made it tbh, far more likely to be binned off and then a generic North franchise based around Sale and encompassing the NW/Cumbria/Yorkshire as it's catchment area (essentially Sale's current pathways but take the rest of cumbria off of Newcastle)

They talk a big talk of wanting however many Franchises in the North and how they want a spread around the whole country but in the end money will tell - if there was the money and appetite for multiple prem level sides in the north then Leeds wouldn't have gone under, Rotherham wouldn't have nose dived and Newcastle wouldn't be on life support

Far more likely to try and conglomerate all the academies in the north into one side and send excess players down south

 

[Ddanno]

what makes you think so? It's the best shot falcons (and others) have at long-term secure investment

What Olly said

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No relegation is being talked about as a total panacea. It's part of the issue, but surely only part. That might attract new investors - fine, but investors want returns and where are they coming from? As now, mainly fans through bums on seats and fans buying merch and paying subscriptions to fund TV deals. If the wider public can't be attracted, the game doesn't grow. At the end of the day the product - sorry, game - isn't changing, it's not like comparing tests with 20:20 which attracts a wholly different audience.

This is all being referred to as an "expansion league". Well we already have a badly disjointed calendar with top players again exceeding their max. How are 12, 14 or 16 teams going to work, except perhaps maybe in conferences which I don't think is on the table?

Olyy also raises a great point about club identity. Let's say the East Midlands Tigersaints come into being. Could we then see Leicester / Saints fielding semi pro or amateur teams in the Championship? Will fans support that synthetic entity in the same way they would the traditional clubs?

Lot of bullishness about, but precious few real answers.

 

[Saintjay]

No relegation is being talked about as a total panacea. It's part of the issue, but surely only part. That might attract new investors - fine, but investors want returns and where are they coming from? As now, mainly fans through bums on seats and fans buying merch and paying subscriptions to fund TV deals. If the wider public can't be attracted, the game doesn't grow. At the end of the day the product - sorry, game - isn't changing, it's not like comparing tests with 20:20 which attracts a wholly different audience.

This is all being referred to as an "expansion league". Well we already have a badly disjointed calendar with top players again exceeding their max. How are 12, 14 or 16 teams going to work, except perhaps maybe in conferences which I don't think is on the table?

Olyy also raises a great point about club identity. Let's say the East Midlands Tigersaints come into being. Could we then see Leicester / Saints fielding semi pro or amateur teams in the Championship? Will fans support that synthetic entity in the same way they would the traditional clubs?

Lot of bullishness about, but precious few real answers.

Would I support a joint East Mids team. Not a snow balls chance in hell.

Most Tigs and Saint fans probably think the same. Either way it makes no sense to merge two teams getting over 15k at home games to one team probably getting the same. So isn't going to happen.

Bath and Gloucester merging is a better idea. You'll have the shed shouting "Blawster" for 80mins instead

 

[Which Tyler]

Would I support a joint East Mids team. Not a snow balls chance in hell.

Most Tigs and Saint fans probably think the same. Either way it makes no sense to merge two teams getting over 15k at home games to one team probably getting the same. So isn't going to happen.

Bath and Gloucester merging is a better idea. You'll have the shed shouting "Blawster" for 80mins instead

If the Premiership fully separates itself from the England rugby pyramid with full-on ring-fencing; then I'm not sure I could even support Bath, let alone any monstrous chimera mixed-club franchise.

I'd probably spend more time at Tewkesbury, and adopt Hartpury for both genders (if they became a "proper" rugby club, rather than a combination of Glos academy + university) - that or switch to a country that does it properly and support Clermont or Nevers as the teams closest to Ali's family.

 

[Weldit]

Has to be a done deal at this stage, but it's going to get very ugly. I don't see Falcons, Quins, Exeter or Tigers going for it (among others) and getting PRL to agree will be a living nightmare

Agreed, and as such, I refer to my last post. The quality will drop to championship standard with just a few break out teams.
To add further evidence that they're ready to jump:

Premiership Rugby revamp could be done by next season - Sweeney

A revolution of the structure of English rugby's top flight could be completed by the start of next season, says Rugby Football Union chief Bill Sweeney.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

To add further evidence that they're ready to jump:

Premiership Rugby revamp could be done by next season - Sweeney

A revolution of the structure of English rugby's top flight could be completed by the start of next season, says Rugby Football Union chief Bill Sweeney.

www.bbc.co.uk

Article talking about Ealing, Coventry and Doncaster all asking to be assessed against Prem standards.

Cov is a traditional rugby town with average attendances of just over 3,000. The other 2 in 18 home games between them wouldn't even be able to fill Welford Road once - both averaging home gates of 1,300.

Good clubs, all. Cov may have an outside chance, but from where they are now it's a hell of a stretch to imagine any sustainably in the elite, shared revenues or not.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

They claim they not going to merge existing Premiership teams or even rename them.