English rugby plots revolutionary changes to expand new ‘franchise-style’ Premiership

[Weldit]

Agreed. This is really starting to sound like they actually think they have a product people are rushing to take part in.

 

[Which Tyler]

Logically if they going for Population base somewhere in West or South Yorkshire is more likely than York.

Also somewhere on the South coast and in East Anglia have been mentioned as where they would like teams in an ideal World.

Cambridge, Brighton/Canterbury and Doncaster seem the most likely.
You'd want a population centre, a university with (really) good sporting facilities, and either a lack of competition from other sports or a huge population. Doncaster overtakes Leeds on the principle of already existing in the Championship.

However, I still utterly fail to see how "franchising and ring-fencing" leads directly to "more rich people willing to throw money away on a (tax-efficient) hobby"

If we're going to do an overhaul it needs to be things like financial fair play and nationalising the academy system (IMO a necessity to then introduce a draft).
This is going to be a bit stream-of-thought, rather than a planned response, so I'll throw it into quote marks to make it easily ignored.

Financial Fair Play
FFP should link club earnings to that club's salary cap, and should involve "owner's contributions" being gifts/sponsorship, not (tax efficient) loans that add up year on year.
Something along the lines of Salary cap = £6M - no marquee players (about half-way between £5M+MP and £6.4M+MP).
If your income from sponsorship & tickets exceeds that, then you can increase you spend up to half the difference (with the other half going into a central pot and spread around the league). If a Wray, Craig or Lansdowne wants to "artificially" increase their club's on-paper earnings, then slap their name on a billboard, call it sponsorship, and accept that you're funding the whole league, but favouring your club.
I'd then put an upper limit on what could be spent, at double the base-line cap.
I'd also copy the idea from the French, whereby the entire season's spending needs to be put into an isolated account by the end of July preceding the season, so that there's no dropping out part-way through the season.
I quite like the idea of centralising ticket revenue as well - exempting season ticket sales. With dynamic pricing aimed at getting eg 80% attendance at each match. If eg Bath can sell 95% of tickets despite charging £100, then so be it, if eg Newcastle can only charge £5 in order to hit 80% attendance, then so be it. BUT all those (non STH) sales go into a central pot and distributed equally.

Academies
To then distribute young players more "fairly", a draft system is the only answer. But you can't viably have a draft system if the clubs have been developing the players from the age of 12. You also need to allow that university exists, but isn't for everyone; and that rugby doesn't pay enough for players to expect to retire from the sport and never work again. So we realistically need to be doing the draft after A-levels. We also need to allow that kids are people with their own preferences, an 18 year old who's had a season ticket for Club A since he was 8, and wants to go to the university attached to Club A isn't going to be happy shipping off to Club B because they want a young scrum half.
So nationalise the academy system - probably to the 9 administrative regions of the country, and under the oversight of the age-grade coaches, administered by the RFU.
You'd want to encourage kids into the academy system; which could be doe with wage "manipulation" - something along the lines of - if you go through the draft process, you sign with the club on a standard contract (let's say 3 years on minimum £X - which can't be renegotiated (or bought out) until the final year) - alternatively, you can opt out of the draft system and trial for the club of your choice, but the contract can't exceed £X for the first 3 years (or £Y with small overlap, if you prefer).
For clubs then, drafted players on their first contract (so aged 18-21) wages are exempt from the salary cap. Trialled players on their first contract (so aged 18-21) wages are 50% exempt from the salary cap.

Franchises
I will always hate the idea of ring-fencing; but if it has to be done, it should be with as many franchises as possible, and enough to form at least 2 divisions, with proper support, funding, exposure and contest between the 2 divisions etc.
If we have to franchise, then location matters - with a good overall geographical spread (not necessarily even, but each region should have at least 1 team). Each club should also pair up with a university to look after their drafted youngsters, preferably one that competes in BUCS, but certainly one that has good sporting facilities.
If we're centralising (non STH) ticket sales, then a fairly high minimum capacity seems fine to me, even leaving it at 10k for the top division, though I'd prefer to shelve the ego and aim lower - the trouble would be getting the licked-finger-in-the-air number right off the bat.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Agreed. This is really starting to sound like they actually think they have a product people are rushing to take part in.

I think we're all agreed that we've reached the point where something has to be done.

But this is a key point. Lots of talk about expansion to 12, 14 or even 16 but there's been huge issues in the past about getting sustainable traction in traditional rugby heartlands. Why would that massively change now?

Also, all for spreading the game geographically, but that needs to be thought through. Realistically, if an away fan is going to Falcons or Pirates or Wasps in Kent, for a majority you're writing off an entire day for 80 minutes of action, plus a fair bit of cash on travelling costs. People have more choices than ever before and just aren't so willing to do that now.

 

[higgik]

I think we're all agreed that we've reached the point where something has to be done.

But this is a key point. Lots of talk about expansion to 12, 14 or even 16 but there's been huge issues in the past about getting sustainable traction in traditional rugby heartlands. Why would that massively change now?

Also, all for spreading the game geographically, but that needs to be thought through. Realistically, if an away fan is going to Falcons or Pirates or Wasps in Kent, for a majority you're writing off an entire day for 80 minutes of action, plus a fair bit of cash on travelling costs. People have more choices than ever before and just aren't so willing to do that now.

So conferences would be a good idea.
Then long away days are only every 2 years.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So conferences would be a good idea.
Then long away days are only every 2 years.

Sweeney's mentioned the conference word but I think he was talking about the tier below Prem.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I still personally think a massive issue is the number of junior and young men who don't see a prem club as their club, they see their actual level 5 club (or whatever) club as their club.

With them playing at the same time as most prem clubs play you have England holding one of the biggest player bases and you are immediately excluding them as fans who could attend. It's almost a downside to the premiership clubs to have strong lower (community teams) in the area.

 

[Geordie]

I think we're all agreed that we've reached the point where something has to be done.

But this is a key point. Lots of talk about expansion to 12, 14 or even 16 but there's been huge issues in the past about getting sustainable traction in traditional rugby heartlands. Why would that massively change now?

Also, all for spreading the game geographically, but that needs to be thought through. Realistically, if an away fan is going to Falcons or Pirates or Wasps in Kent, for a majority you're writing off an entire day for 80 minutes of action, plus a fair bit of cash on travelling costs. People have more choices than ever before and just aren't so willing to do that now.

Most fans i talk to tend to use the match for a long weekend up here. But yes, if theyr're coming for the match it makes a long trip.

Ive said before, with the falcons the location of the stadium is not ideal and plays against them often when trying to attract more "fair weather" fan.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I still personally think a massive issue is the number of junior and young men who don't see a prem club as their club, they see their actual level 5 club (or whatever) club as their club.

With them playing at the same time as most prem clubs play you have England holding one of the biggest player bases and you are immediately excluding them as fans who could attend. It's almost a downside to the premiership clubs to have strong lower (community teams) in the area.

Fair, but also insoluble.

There's only so much time you can devote to rugby in a weekend - especially if you've got other halves and families. If it's a choice, I'd much rather see thousands of people playing the game at their level than attending top flight matches.

I also think that for the most part you need to grow up / live really close to a major club to have a true affinity with it as opposed to casual interest. They just don't have and won't get the reach football clubs do.

 

[Flankers' paradise]

The devil will be in the details.

But they want to expand to 12 or 14 or maybe beyond. Whatever the structure that's pretty optimistic given the state of the finances of some of the current 10. Doesn't matter how you package it if fans aren't coming into stadia or buying the right TV packages / merch.

From what I understand basically every club's attendances have risen this season, plus tv viewership is up because they've just signed a new, larger deal wih TNT

 

[Flankers' paradise]

I think they are taking steps in the right direction, for all people's complaints about depowering scums and blah blah and defences being more porous, attacking rugby sells better than attritional rugby. Casual fans would turn up to watch a 43-42 game but not a 12-6 game. Realistically they don't want to spend 10 minutes of the 80 watching resets and the like. There also needs to be greater representation from the top down. It's all well and good stating a desire to have rugby in more state schools but when you look at the england squad, Genge is the only one who sounds normal, everyone else generally sounds posh which isn't a slate on them individually but working class football fans aen't going to be endeared by that. Compare that to the football team where readily accessible are players with geordie, brum, south london, regional accents - and despite being multi millionaires earning much more than rugby counterparts they are instantly more relatable to fans

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

From what I understand basically every club's attendances have risen this season, plus tv viewership is up because they've just signed a new, larger deal wih TNT

Good signs. Whether all this makes the clubs viable or less unviable remains to be seen.

I think the TV deal was resigned on reduced terms a few years ago. Is the new deal likely to break new ground or recover old?

 

[Weldit]

Good signs. Whether all this makes the clubs viable or less unviable remains to be seen.

I think the TV deal was resigned on reduced terms a few years ago. Is the new deal likely to break new ground or recover old?

If this goes ahead, I'm guessing we'll see a few breakout teams and the league mostly being championship level. I'm fine with that, but I imagine they won't be

 

[McTallshort]

I think they are taking steps in the right direction, for all people's complaints about depowering scums and blah blah and defences being more porous, attacking rugby sells better than attritional rugby. Casual fans would turn up to watch a 43-42 game but not a 12-6 game. Realistically they don't want to spend 10 minutes of the 80 watching resets and the like. There also needs to be greater representation from the top down. It's all well and good stating a desire to have rugby in more state schools but when you look at the england squad, Genge is the only one who sounds normal, everyone else generally sounds posh which isn't a slate on them individually but working class football fans aen't going to be endeared by that. Compare that to the football team where readily accessible are players with geordie, brum, south london, regional accents - and despite being multi millionaires earning much more than rugby counterparts they are instantly more relatable to fans

So the plan is to turn rugby union into Rugby League in the hope of attracting football fans?

 

[Reiser99]

I still personally think a massive issue is the number of junior and young men who don't see a prem club as their club, they see their actual level 5 club (or whatever) club as their club.

With them playing at the same time as most prem clubs play you have England holding one of the biggest player bases and you are immediately excluding them as fans who could attend. It's almost a downside to the premiership clubs to have strong lower (community teams) in the area.

This has been pointed out before. Rugby matches are often scheduled at the same time as amateur games so people can't go to both.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

do causal fans actually like more points? Obviously there is a sweet spot but tries stop being special if people score all the time.

People want something they understand. And rugby had just made the game more complicated in hopes of creating more scoring.

 

[McTallshort]

do causal fans actually like more points? Obviously there is a sweet spot but tries stop being special if people score all the time.

People want something they understand. And rugby had just made the game more complicated in hopes of creating more scoring.

Soccer is the most popular game in the world and is very low scoring

 

[stus768]

This has been pointed out before. Rugby matches are often scheduled at the same time as amateur games so people can't go to both.

Would be great if amateur games were played earlier in the day. Might suit peoples lifestyles better too as whole Saturday not taken up.

 

[Ddanno]

Would be great if amateur games were played earlier in the day. Might suit peoples lifestyles better too as whole Saturday not taken up.

Still wouldn't allow a lot of time or energy to get to a prem fixture, and probably has a detrimental effect on amateur game attendance to boot. I wish I could be more constructive.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Soccer is the most popular game in the world and is very low scoring

Yep. I always likened goals to tries. I'd be happy with 4 or 5 tries per match if teams had to really work for them.

In the Prem this week there were 50 tries - 10 per match with even teams getting a spanking scoring 3 or 5.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Would be great if amateur games were played earlier in the day. Might suit peoples lifestyles better too as whole Saturday not taken up.

Unless you're lucky enough to be young, free and single it's most likely to be an either / or.

And personally I used to hate morning kick offs.