[EOYT] England vs. Argentina 09/11/13

[LittleGuy]

England vs. Argentina 09/11/13 14:30 GMT() Twickenham Stadium, London, England

Referee: Pascal Gauzere (France)

Broadcast England: Sky Sports 2(let me know if this is wrong, I thought I saw this a week or so ago) Argentina: ESPN Latin America

3rd ranked England look to continue their November schedule with another win against a Pumas side (ranked 10th) that has struggled recently and is undergoing some changes in both coaching and personnel. The Pumas will also be looking to avenge two heavy defeats this June to England where a weak side was beaten comprehensively by a decent albeit "Lions less" England side. Full strength side match up's have been much closer in recent years with games often coming down to the wire.

Lineups will be posted when available....and when a member of TRF gets off their duff to post them.


Argentina

1- Marcos Ayerza
2- Eusebio Guiñazú
3- Maximiliano Bustos
4- Mariano Galarza
5- Patricio Albacete
6- Pablo Matera
7- Julio Farías Cabello
8- Juan Manuel Leguizamón (Capitán)
9- Tomás Cubelli
10- Nicolás Sánchez
11- Juan Imhoff
12- Santiago Fernández
13 - Marcelo Bosch
14- Horacio Agulla
15- Lucas González Amorosino

Bench

16- Santiago Iglesias Valdez
17- Nahuel Lobo
18- Juan Pablo Orlandi
19- Manuel Carizza
20- Benjamín Macome
21- Martín Landajo
22- Gonzalo Tiesi
23- Santiago Cordero


England

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins, 19 caps)
14 Chris Ashton (Saracens, 35 caps)
13 Joel Tomkins (Saracens, 1 cap)
12 Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 6 caps)
11 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints, 32 caps)
10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 17 caps)
9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 13 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 48 caps)
3 David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 29 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 12 caps)
5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 23 caps)
6 Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 21 caps)
7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 18 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 3 caps)

Replacements

16 Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps
17 Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints, 18 caps)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 41 caps)
19 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)
20 Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 13 caps)
21 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 34 caps)
22 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 58 caps)
23 Alex Goode (Saracens, 11 caps)

 

[Crapspray]

While every prediction against the Pumas should come with an asterisk, England should look to win this by a comfortable margin. Argentina are missing key players and their camp/management is, by most accounts, a mess.

The aim should be for far greater fluidity in the backs and improving the line-out. The scrum went well, and the Telegraph is reporting that England's starting pack didn't miss a single tackle out of seventy-nine. If the line-out is sorted then, forwards-wise, they're in a good position. For the backs: Farrell needs to stand flatter and passing must improve all-round.

My changes: Corbisiero in for Marler (Vunipola benched), Wade in for Ashton, and Parling in for Attwood (I prefer Attwood, but the experience of Parling is needed this close to the All Blacks).

 

[Packman]

England vs. Argentina 09/11/13 14:30 GMT() Twickenham Stadium, London, England

Referee: Pascal Gauzere (France)

Broadcast England: Sky Sports 2(let me know if this is wrong, I thought I saw this a week or so ago) Argentina: ESPN Latin America

3rd ranked England look to continue their November schedule with another win against a Pumas side (ranked 10th) that has struggled recently and is undergoing some changes in both coaching and personnel. The Pumas will also be looking to avenge two heavy defeats this June to England where a weak side was beaten comprehensively by a decent albeit "Lions less" England side. Full strength side match up's have been much closer in recent years with games often coming down to the wire.

Lineups will be posted when available....and when a member of TRF gets off their duff to post them.

This match is about performing well. I don't think Argentina will win if England play to their best. The problem is that we hardly ever see the players get really fired up unless they've had three weeks of media abuse and are looking down the barrel of a humiliating defeat at the hands of some lethal team like the All Blacks! I mean, come on lads! If you can pull out all the stops for one game, you can do it for every game. Its England Vs... That should be enough to get you in the mood to smash someone's rib cage into matchsticks. More fire in the belly please! Take a leaf out of Mr Lawes' and Mr Wood's book. You saw what Northampton did to the Ospreys? HIT 'EM LIKE THAT!

Apparently we're third in the world. I'm not convinced. Let's up it to another level. Third in the world means putting away a side like Argentina and making sure they know what to expect next time we meet. You can be damn sure that's how SA and NZ approach matches like this.

 

[Patchey]

Do my fellow Englishmen want Lancaster to change things up or keep fairly consistent with a view to building towards the NZ game?

Personally I'd being Wade and Corbs in and keep everything the same for now. After such a long time without a 'first XV' game the Australia match was never going to be pretty.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wilson in.
Ashton out for Wade.

I will be pretty ****** off if neither of those is done.

 

[j'nuh]

Corbs, Wilson and Wade in.
Kvesic on the bench instead of Morgan.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I agree, Corbs goes without saying.
And there is no point having an 8 on the bench, particularly when he isn't playing very well.
And it would allow Wood/Robshaw a rest should the game be fairly comfortable (clearly giving Kev gametime too).

The Wade call is the one that will leave me spitting blood should it not happen though.

 

[Wasps For Life]

My Team

1. Corbs
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12 Twelvetrees
13. Tomkins
14. Wade
15. Brown

16. Youngs
17. Vunipola
18. Cole
19. Kvesic
20. Dickson
21. Flood
22. Burrell
23. Foden

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is billy an 80min player though? He looked pretty dead when coming off last week. His style definitely looks to be to run himself ragged and then get subbed.
Suppose wood can cover 8 from the pitch in that case.

 

[Peat]

The Wade call is the one that will leave me spitting blood when it doesn't happen.

EFA

Re the back row sub call - I don't think Billy's fit enough for 80, and Wood/Robshaw are. I'm guessing that's the thinking.

We should play the team we intend to play NZ. I'm weirdly not fussed about changes made, I'll trust the coaches*, but any changes between this game and the NZ game will be a mistake. This is not a time for experiments.

*Obviously, there's quite a few changes I'd like to see, but I would also like to build up some coherency in the team. That, and they're not going to happen, so I'm kinda resigned to it. We should beat Argentina and lose to NZ regardless, so...

Is billy an 80min player though? He looked pretty dead when coming off last week. His style definitely looks to be to run himself ragged and then get subbed.
Suppose wood can cover 8 from the pitch in that case.

I thought'd we learned our lesson there!

 

[Big Ewis]

oh look....all English posts so far.
Yeah, England by some points here...unless this is the time Argentina decide to play to their potential, and that coaching change, though completely new and sudden, is exactly the change they needed to get that extra motivation and exuberance going into this TOYE.....I'm sorry, *EOYT. Pfff, how strange...

So the scrum will be interesting to watch. I hope the Argie backs will remember they're on the field during the 80min, that might help the Argie cause....*might*.
And hopefully Argentina can really play defense this time around, good God that mast match at home against Aus was painful to watch....my, my.
They sooooooo desperately needed a new coach..

 

[ratsapprentice]

England squad preparing for Argentina

Forwards (14)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Backs (13)

Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Marland Yarde (London Irish)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)

And third Test try-scorer in Sydney Corbisiero has recovered from a knee injury to replace fellow Lions loosehead Mako Vunipola, who is out of the game with a minor medial ligament strain to his knee.
Bath Rugby’s Rob Webber will also remain with the squad on stand-by for Leicester Tigers hooker Tom Youngs, whose wife expecting their first child.

 

[marianodan]

Argentina:

1- Marcos Ayerza
2- Eusebio Guiñazú
3- Maximiliano Bustos
4- Mariano Galarza
5- Patricio Albacete
6- Pablo Matera
7- Julio Farías Cabello
8- Juan Manuel Leguizamón (Capitán)
9- Tomás Cubelli
10- Nicolás Sánchez
11- Juan Imhoff
12- Santiago Fernández
13 - Marcelo Bosch
14- Horacio Agulla
15- Lucas González Amorosino

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Hope Wade plays, looking like an improved team from the Aus one.

 

[Bluemoon]

Expectations of both Wade and Yarde playing? Where has this attacking ambition come from?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I bet Lancaster will eff it up and drop Yarde for Wade :lol:

I'm annoyed that Attwood has been released - wanted to see him start this game.
I imagine that Hartley will be starting at 2, then - they won't want to train all week with Youngs as their starting 2 if it's 50/50 whether he'll be there or not.

 

[Jaguares]

England by 5...

 

[Wasps For Life]

England by 15. Something like 32-15

 

[j'nuh]

I bet Lancaster will eff it up and drop Yarde for Wade :lol:

I'm annoyed that Attwood has been released - wanted to see him start this game.
I imagine that Hartley will be starting at 2, then - they won't want to train all week with Youngs as their starting 2 if it's 50/50 whether he'll be there or not.

Whatever happens, just remember the dark, dark days of 11. Brown 14. Ashton 15. Goode.

 

[j-dawg]

This match is about performing well. I don't think Argentina will win if England play to their best. The problem is that we hardly ever see the players get really fired up unless they've had three weeks of media abuse and are looking down the barrel of a humiliating defeat at the hands of some lethal team like the All Blacks! I mean, come on lads! If you can pull out all the stops for one game, you can do it for every game. Its England Vs... That should be enough to get you in the mood to smash someone's rib cage into matchsticks. More fire in the belly please! Take a leaf out of Mr Lawes' and Mr Wood's book. You saw what Northampton did to the Ospreys? HIT 'EM LIKE THAT!

Apparently we're third in the world. I'm not convinced. Let's up it to another level. Third in the world means putting away a side like Argentina and making sure they know what to expect next time we meet. You can be damn sure that's how SA and NZ approach matches like this.

Oh my Lord, THIS!!! It's been this way for years!! This really does sum up post 2003 England. World cup Quarter final 2007 (single tear down the cheek), Ireland 2008 6n, France 2009 6n, Australia 2010 tour + Autumn, All Blacks 2012 - It's all been when they've taken such a shafting in the media! We should visciously beat them like dogs constantly. 'Beat the All blacks? Why didn't you get another try? You're sh**' 'Won the grand slam? Wales have been doing that for years you ba******'

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Oh my Lord, THIS!!! It's been this way for years!! This really does sum up post 2003 England. World cup Quarter final 2007 (single tear down the cheek), Ireland 2008 6n, France 2009 6n, Australia 2010 tour + Autumn, All Blacks 2012 - It's all been when they've taken such a shafting in the media! We should visciously beat them like dogs constantly. 'Beat the All blacks? Why didn't you get another try? You're sh**' 'Won the grand slam? Wales have been doing that for years you ba******'

Yes but in the games mentioned above we never actually win them the French/Irish/Kiwis lose them and we get lucky.

 

[j-dawg]

I've heard England have never actually won a game ever.

 

[Aspry]

It's clear for me that England should win without much trouble due the awful conditions that this Puma team is facing.
Leaving aside the new coach and the internal problems in the squad, too many of our key players are out for this test and also we don't have a clear leader ahead of the team. The last time we didn't have a leader playing on the field we lost 73-13, so I am a little bit worried about this match to tell the truth.
That being said, England by 25.
Wish well for both sides and I hope at least for a fun game to watch, want to see Cordero on the field.

 

[HenryChinaski]

I bet Lancaster will eff it up and drop Yarde for Wade :lol:

I'm annoyed that Attwood has been released - wanted to see him start this game.
I imagine that Hartley will be starting at 2, then - they won't want to train all week with Youngs as their starting 2 if it's 50/50 whether he'll be there or not.

I knwo what you mean, but then we've already seen Attwood Wilson and Wade against Argentina - I'd have liked to see them start the game against Oz, being different opposition, rather than a 3rd run out against Argentina. As it is, it feels like Lancaster is still giving the top and most competitive games to his favourites of which Ashton is unfortunately one, whilst pn;y letting Wade, Burns and co have a go against the 2nd tier sides! I don't mean this as disrespect to Argentina - I think they're capable of winning against us of course, but away from home in their current form seems a long shot.

 

[Patchey]

Only real surprise in the list of released players is Mako. A bit odd that Marler has been chosen over him. Everything else was fairly expected, if a little sad in the case of Burns and Attwood.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This is a very different Argentina side, though.
and if Attwood isn't in this game, then I can't see him being in the 23 next week either, meaning we won't see him until the Six Nations which, unless there's injury, he'll be fighting to get into the 23 with Lawes/Parling/Launchbury already having their spots.

 

[Big Ewis]

It's clear for me that England should win without much trouble due the awful conditions that this Puma team is facing.
Leaving aside the new coach and the internal problems in the squad, too many of our key players are out for this test and also we don't have a clear leader ahead of the team. The last time we didn't have a leader playing on the field we lost 73-13, so I am a little bit worried about this match to tell the truth.
That being said, England by 25.
Wish well for both sides and I hope at least for a fun game to watch, want to see Cordero on the field.

As a fan whose nation is having big problems itself, I can only tell you this: France and Argentina will seemingly very often have ups and downs, look amazing and then go through a crisis, but it's only temporary. Be patient and the Pumas will come right back into good form and put fear into the nations they're playing. With both feet in TRC, there's no way but up.
Godspeed, Argentina !

 

[Patchey]

This is a very different Argentina side, though.
and if Attwood isn't in this game, then I can't see him being in the 23 next week either, meaning we won't see him until the Six Nations which, unless there's injury, he'll be fighting to get into the 23 with Lawes/Parling/Launchbury already having their spots.

Is it churlish of me to suggest that the Barnes inspired Lawes-hype has cost Attwood his place?

 

[Peat]

Possibly. I think getting injured just before the AIs was probably a bigger deal.

 

[Patchey]

True. Although he seemed back fit and playing well the week before the first game if i remember correctly. The same weekend that Lawes made lots of hits and got everyone excited.