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[EOYT] Georgia vs. Canada. 09/11/13

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Official crowd number listed as 22,827 in a 60,000 stadium. Not a bad number, but would have looked better in the 27,000 stadium the Mikheil Meskhi but never mind, I've heard Georgia has had some issues with stadia availability of late. Canada drew more than Japan or Fiji did last year.
 
psychic duck said:
Official crowd number listed as 22,827 in a 60,000 stadium. Not a bad number, but would have looked better in the 27,000 stadium the Mikheil Meskhi but never mind, I've heard Georgia has had some issues with stadia availability of late. Canada drew more than Japan or Fiji did last year.
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That's a very good number on a cold rainy day... considering how much Georgians like the comfort of home and sports pubs during the games
 
Toko_11 said:
That's a very good number on a cold rainy day... considering how much Georgians like the comfort of home and sports pubs during the games
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Just out of curiosity, would it be common for this match to be shown in a pub and would a lot of people be watching it there?
 
norcalbuff said:
Just out of curiosity, would it be common for this match to be shown in a pub and would a lot of people be watching it there?
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yeaa absolutely Pubs would be overcrowded.. there's a sports pub/cafe or a restaurant with TVs on every corner of the street and whole town would be watching rugby there.. Also if someone has a spacious house they invite buddies and make a huge gathering for the game day... its like one of my favorite things about Georgia People love to socialize... no one ever sits home alone to watch a game that's pretty rare.. unfortunately to most Georgians Pub/restaurant/home sounds and feels better than cold and wet stadium.
 
Such a **** game from us.... I cannot begin to express my displeasure with our performance today. Our forwards got one-up'ed hard by the Georgian pack and we played right into their hands with our stupid aerial ping pong and ridiculous off-loading. The card of Ardron was ridiculous but if you are going to get a card at least make it worthwhile.... if this had been Canada circa 1990's/early 2000's Kolelishvili would have been a corpse on the field... our boys need to man up!

What I really want to know is how Lawrence came up with that BS call... we had 3 players go off injured after that fight, it was absolute horse**** the call he made! His lack of action in disciplining Georgia changed the entire tone of the game.
 
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IMHO, the referee's decision was absolutely correct when he red carded both players. If he had sent off only Kolelishvili, it would be very bad precedent and awful message to rugby players. It would mean ,,Ok, if someone commits high tackle or some kind of ,,unnecessary violence" (I love this phrase, which is used in American Football), you can attack him and stay unpunished".
I believe that referee is the only man on the pitch, who has the right to restore justice.
On the other hand, I perfectly understand that it is not always possible for rugby players to control their emotions. However, in this case you must be ready for sanctions and do not ask for ,,favorable treatment".
 
Dato said:
IMHO, the referee's decision was absolutely correct when he red carded both players. If he had sent off only Kolelishvili, it would be very bad precedent and awful message to rugby players. It would mean ,,Ok, if someone commits high tackle or some kind of ,,unnecessary violence" (I love this phrase, which is used in American Football), you can attack him and stay unpunished".
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But Ardron didn't attack the Georgian #6. All he did was go over to him and grab him by the jersey; that's when the Georgians started acting like convicts by attacking anyone who moved. Check out the video.

No matter how you look at it, the Georgians benefited from shoddy refereeing when the fight broke out.
 
CDN_Rugby said:
But Ardron didn't attack the Georgian #6. All he did was go over to him and grab him by the jersey; that's when the Georgians started acting like convicts by attacking anyone who moved. Check out the video.

No matter how you look at it, the Georgians benefited from shoddy refereeing when the fight broke out.
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This. Even a yellow to Ardron would have been a little harsh, though I wouldn't have had my jaw drop, my Dad and I were watching and we were like "Did we miss something? Did Ardron punch somebody or do something that wasn't caught in the replay?"

Not to say a Canadian victory would have been guarenteed with how ass we were yesterday but it was a huge moment. Hopefully an appeal has been launched.
 
We had three players leave the field after that fight and it changed the game, Barkwill and Tiedemann were literally getting gang-beaten by the Georgians. IMO Georgia should have been heavily punished like Tonga were in the PNC, the way Lawrence called it was completely wrong and promotes a brand of very negative rugby. The game was terrible and one we need to forget about very quickly. One thing I hate about our team is they never seem to want to take a chance. That first penalty kick we took they should have kicked for touch in the corner right away and their were numerous other times I thought we should have kicked for touch rather then going for the three points.

There were numerous times where we ended up losing the territory battle by catching the ball off a Georgian kick then simply booting it right back to them giving up possession and not allowing our dangerous backs to be unleashed. It was so frustrating to watch because every time the ball actually made it out to Trainor, Mackenzie, Hassler, Evans they would consistently get go-forward ball and looked very dangerous in open play.

I will give full credit to the Georgians though, I will be honest I really like your guys team, you have a big pack with a lot of very mean dudes who are going to be able to intimidate and bully almost any side you come up against. Your players are also disciplined at the breakdown and in set-piece play and it really showed during the entire match. Our forwards got owned by your guys, no other way of putting it.
 
I kinda feel sorry for Ardron in his first captaincy his initial reaction was probably to protect his teammate and i think by the time he got to vito he realized it was not the right thing to do and was not going to start the fight..but he didn't know who he was up against at that moment Kolelishvili whose indiscipline has already made him very popular around the world(and btw in Georgia as well. when even Georgians are telling you to improve your discipline... boy you must be really F..ed up) saw opposite N8 charging and went into his Hulk mode out of which no one has yet escaped without a huge fight! as for the ref he probably thought that Ardron made a hit it happened really fast and at first i also thought that.. if you watch the video it took about half a second for Ardron to get to vito and launch the fight. there's also no TMO in Georgia so the ref had to make a decision, he also called assistants over and they probably had noticed Ardrons charge and when he grabs vitos shirt it would look like a hit from far away so It was a mistake but I don't think ref knowingly made a wrong decision. Also someone correctly mentioned on YTBe that if Ardron had stayed back only vito would be sent off and Canada at that moment would get a huge advantage with all their players staying on the field..
 
Toko_11 said:
I kinda feel sorry for Ardron in his first captaincy his initial reaction was probably to protect his teammate and i think by the time he got to vito he realized it was not the right thing to do and was not going to start the fight..but he didn't know who he was up against at that moment Kolelishvili whose indiscipline has already made him very popular around the world(and btw in Georgia as well. when even Georgians are telling you to improve your discipline... boy you must be really F..ed up) saw opposite N8 charging and went into his Hulk mode out of which no one has yet escaped without a huge fight! as for the ref he probably thought that Ardron made a hit it happened really fast and at first i also thought that.. if you watch the video it took about half a second for Ardron to get to vito and launch the fight. there's also no TMO in Georgia so the ref had to make a decision, he also called assistants over and they probably had noticed Ardrons charge and when he grabs vitos shirt it would look like a hit from far away so It was a mistake but I don't think ref knowingly made a wrong decision. Also someone correctly mentioned on YTBe that if Ardron had stayed back only vito would be sent off and Canada at that moment would get a huge advantage with all their players staying on the field..
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This is true, I hate Vito but damn he is one mean dude and I wish he was on my team!
 
Hat off to N5 Datunashvili who was the only Georgian actively trying to stop the fight, he Reminds me of Ilia Zedgenidze. one of my favorites currently on the team, a very Humble guy and does his job like a pro without much noise! I think people always get carried away with the bad guys and don't give enough credit where its due.. if Georgians praised and encouraged the professional behavior like Datunasvilis in this case more and more young kids would look towards him instead of likes of Vito and Gorgodze thus improving overall discipline of athletes..
 
I agree that Vito needs to improve in terms of discipline and responsibility. He can be the elite level player if he does so. However, what would you do if you were in his place yesterday? Two guys rushed on him immediately. Should he wait until he was punched and than respond? Everything happened in max. 1 second. I can not say for sure that Canadian player did not want to punch him. Perhaps, nobody knows it except Ardron. Anyway, it was very unwise from Ardron. Canada had all chances to benefit from that episode. I agree that Canada's play suffered as a result of fight although playing 14 vs 14 should have been in favour of Canada (due to the obvious difference in playing style). 3 years ago, when we played USA in Tbilisi, US player committed even worse high tackle but Georgian players did not start fight. We just benefited from the episode. US player was yellow carded and our kicker made easy 3 points. It is by far not the last test match between our teams and it would be very sad if there is any hatred between players.
 
I still don't Think 15v15 fight is the way to go.. perhaps so many Georgians joined fight because they knew it was their chance to get the upper hand in the game.. after all messier it is harder it makes for the ref to figure out what the hell happened and 90% of the refs would punish both teams after a fight like that... Lelos know how to use fights to their advantage, its a tactical move.. however Canadians just fight to fight without realizing what the consequences will be for their team afterwards. they stepped right into the trap.
 
How was it unwise from Ardron? As the video shows, all he did was grab the jersey and then the Georgian #6 started swinging like his life was in danger.

Ardron-->grabs jersey.

Georgian #6--> nearly decapitates Underwood with an abysmal tackle (and knocks Canada's starting fly-half out of the game in the process) and then starts throwing bombs at someone who's only crime was grabbing the cotton and polyester on his chest.

Ummm... over-reaction much? If grabbing a jersey is worthy of punch combo right out of Street Fighter II, I'm afraid logic doesn't apply here.
 
CDN_Rugby said:
How was it unwise from Ardron? As the video shows, all he did was grab the jersey and then the Georgian #6 started swinging like his life was in danger.

Ardron-->grabs jersey.

Georgian #6--> nearly decapitates Underwood with an abysmal tackle (and knocks Canada's starting fly-half out of the game in the process) and then starts throwing bombs at someone who's only crime was grabbing the cotton and polyester on his chest.

Ummm... over-reaction much? If grabbing a jersey is worthy of punch combo right out of Street Fighter II, I'm afraid logic doesn't apply here.
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After the tackle kolelishvili already knows he is in trouble and has nothing to lose, if you charge him he will of course take the chance to get you in trouble. Ardrons only mistake was not knowing what he was up against, If they were up against USA or any other team that fight wouldn't have much consequence because it wouldn't be as big, but when you charge Vito who makes Cudmore look like a diplomat its not a wise move.

look at it this way, if someone ran up to Cudmore like that and grabbed him what would happen ? now multiply that by 2x since Lelos have Vito and Gorgodze on the field and you will get the picture
 
Toko_11 said:
After the tackle kolelishvili already knows he is in trouble and has nothing to lose, if you charge him he will of course take the chance to get you in trouble. Ardrons only mistake was not knowing what he was up against, If they were up against USA or any other team that fight wouldn't have much consequence because it wouldn't be as big, but when you charge Vito who makes Cudmore look like a diplomat its not a wise move.

look at it this way, if someone ran up to Cudmore like that and grabbed him what would happen ? now multiply that by 2x since Lelos have Vito and Gorgodze on the field and you will get the picture
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I think Vito and Jamie made a great team at Clermont, too bad he is playing for LOU now :)

LOL I re-watched the fight around 3 times and when the ref gives Vito the card he acts unsurprised but as soon as the Ref calls Ardron over Vito looks right at Ardron with the biggest **** eating grin on his face that basically says "I got you in trouble!" It was pretty priceless.

I am kind of agreeing with you now Toko, after having watched the fight a few times the boys would have been wise to stay out of it. Sinclair gave a good shot to some guy on the ground and suckered him from behind and then acted all innocent when the Georgians mauled him haha.

I think the boys need some re-training in the boxing ring before the next match and Vito needs to sign up for the UFC at one point I think he had Ardron knocked out on his feet :)
 
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Canadian_Rugger said:
I think Vito and Jamie made a great team at Clermont, too bad he is playing for LOU now :)

LOL I re-watched the fight around 3 times and when the ref gives Vito the card he acts unsurprised but as soon as the Ref calls Ardron over Vito looks right at Ardron with the biggest **** eating grin on his face that basically says "I got you in trouble!" It was pretty priceless.

I am kind of agreeing with you now Toko, after having watched the fight a few times the boys would have been wise to stay out of it. Sinclair gave a good shot to some guy on the ground and suckered him from behind and then acted all innocent when the Georgians mauled him haha.

I think the boys need some re-training in the boxing ring before the next match and Vito needs to sign up for the UFC at one point I think he had Ardron knocked out on his feet :)
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All you really need to know what happened is pay attention to Gorgodzes actions throughout.

In the beginning right after the tackle he puts his hand up and tries to talk to the ref which means Georgians know they are in trouble and are trying to cooperate in hopes that ref would spare Kolelishvili.. but then as he hears the noise turns around in excitement now he knows there is a mess all around and its a chance to make Canadians share the blame and even it out... then there is the fight and at the end when Vito is shown a red Gorgodzes reaction says it all.. His face is saying Well we knew he was gettin kicked but you also gotta kick the Canadian guy now.. after that happens Georgians retreat to their half very pleased while canadians lose half of their starters... and that is why its better to have an experienced captain on the field the one who doesn't act out of emotion and can see the bigger picture.
I'm not protecting Georgians here btw It's what i think happened objectively. Canadians got emotional and gave lelos chance to win the game and they of course didn't let that one go to waste..
 
CDN_Rugby said:
How was it unwise from Ardron? As the video shows, all he did was grab the jersey and then the Georgian #6 started swinging like his life was in danger.
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I would say, ,,The video shows that the only thing he managed to do was grabbing the jersey". I am sure that his next step would be punching Vito. You can find enough videos on YouTube, when guys grab jerseys in much less aggressive manner and then punch each other. Watch some fights of Gorgodze or Cudmore vs O'Connel video. If Ardron was not going to punch, his acting is at least very naive, because it is even more difficult to bully players like Vito, Cudmore or Gorgodze than beating them. It does not matter wether they are in trouble or not. As far as Canadians also do not have the reputation of soft guys ( neither in rugby and of course nor in hockey), I do not believe that ARdron had no violent intentions :)
 
This was Canada's second fight of the year after the Tongan game. Shame for them they didn't have Cudmore in either to help out as they have come off worse in both fights. As said before, didn't the 1995 Canada team have a massive fight with South Africa once? The current generation lack that enforcer (or at least one that turns up) who all opposition hates but you love to have in your team.

I disagree there was any tactics in it by the way. It was more likely just some renowned hot headed players getting caught up in it. Kolelishvili got sent off last year for punching after Marius Tincu pulled his afro, if he was tactical about sending offs then he himself wouldn't have retaliated back then.
 
psychic duck said:
This was Canada's second fight of the year after the Tongan game. Shame for them they didn't have Cudmore in either to help out as they have come off worse in both fights. As said before, didn't the 1995 Canada team have a massive fight with South Africa once? The current generation lack that enforcer (or at least one that turns up) who all opposition hates but you love to have in your team.

I disagree there was any tactics in it by the way. It was more likely just some renowned hot headed players getting caught up in it. Kolelishvili got sent off last year for punching after Marius Tincu pulled his afro, if he was tactical about sending offs then he himself wouldn't have retaliated back then.
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They don't need to plan that.. its a tactical move ingrained in their DNA already... if they got anything good from that fight that would be a card for the opposition and they did it
 
And Ardron has been cleared of his red card by the IRB!!!! What a joke call, not sure whether it was lowered to a yellow or thrown out completely, too late for this game but at least he's available for Romania.
 
How do you know that Ardron was cleared and how long did Vito get? Vito should have got two red cards, one for the high tackle and one for fighting. They should then have to choose another player for the second red card, just like hockey.
 
wayner said:
How do you know that Ardron was cleared and how long did Vito get? Vito should have got two red cards, one for the high tackle and one for fighting. They should then have to choose another player for the second red card, just like hockey.
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He said so on twitter and was named to the starting lineup for this game. In most circumstances a red card means you miss the next game though that can be appealed as Ardron did and he was succesful, I unfortunately do not know the Goergian players situations.
 

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