[EOYT] Canada vs. New Zealand Maori. 03/11/13

[ABs2011]

I think the Maori "All Blacks" thing is kind of ridiculous.
Seems over the past few years the All Blacks have been getting more commercialised. They were resistant to a sponsor logo and eventually changed, now they are tacking the All Black name to everything (All Black Sevens, right?).

A lot of people do in NZ mate, but the flip side is this could be the only way NZ rugby stays dominant... Anyone got any better ideas?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

How did Squire, the NZ 6 play?

 

[nickdnz]

How did Squire, the NZ 6 play?

I thought he did reasonably well - nothing that stood out to me as exceptional but was reasonably busy. Other than the set piece the NZ forwards were generally more dominant in my opinion (the scrum was pretty even). The backs looked pretty messy though - a lot of knock ons they ran too flat in my opinion, which meant they were forcing passes.

I liked the look of Hearn for Canada - looks to have quite a bit of pace for a pretty big dude.

 

[psychic duck]

Really pleasantly surprised by the game. I don't think the scoreline truly reflected the contest. I expected that it would be a really lopsided affair but really it was fairly even for good stretches and the Canadian desire to entertain vs. sound tactical decisions was costly. Did they even one time kick for territory?

Hassler looked good and so did Trainor and I really like Evans at 15. Except for Pritchard's world class goal kicking he might start having a hard time cracking the lineup. Too bad for Hearn because he really looked like he was having one of his better games. Braid was disappointing in relief. I thought Underwood had some good patches and showed some good attacking flair but made some questionable decision that marred the performance. Jones at 12 was pretty disappointing. My biggest disappointment of the day was Mack. Not for his effort, he was tenacious, but he just seemed to be trying to do to much and it just wasn't coming off. I am and will continue to be a big Mack fan he just needs to remember it's 15's and not 7's. I thought Mackenzie coming in was an upgrade on this day and he provided good service, even under pressure.

Carpenter ran hot and cold, maybe more cold than hot, I had mixed feelings about his performance. Dala looked good early so his injury hurt us badly at the break down. Kleeberger was decent but he is still not up to his old form. Perhaps more game time over the next 3 weeks will see that reemerge. Moonlight was Ok. He tackled well enough but just didn't have enough impact at the break down and more than anything that is what you need from your 7. Ardron was a beast and showed his class all over the park, even though he was playing out of position. Phelan was adequate if uninspiring but the entire front row deserves a hand for a solid performance. Woolridge scumaged much better than I expected. Barkwell probably had his best lineout day that I have ever seen and Buydens was very good all day long. He was much better with ball in hand than I remember being or expected on the night.

Overall the two things that cost the most was the handling errors and ball security at the tackle/ruck.

All in all not a terrible performance against a pretty strong side and it just begs the question... "What if the missing pro's had been available" I'll be interested to read other's opinions as I know mine is probably very biased. This should give them good confidence knowing they ran with a bigger than average dog and didn't get mauled and prepare them really well for a big test next week against Georgia.

Good analysis rusty_lock. One question that crossed my mind watching this though, was will Canada be playing such a loose wide game next week away in Tbilisi? Or was it due to the non test status of the fixture?

 

[Jaguares]

I think the Maori "All Blacks" thing is kind of ridiculous.
Seems over the past few years the All Blacks have been getting more commercialised. They were resistant to a sponsor logo and eventually changed, now they are tacking the All Black name to everything (All Black Sevens, right?).

New Zealand Sevens change their name because the Olympic Games. NZRU want to have a more marketable name like: "All Blacks Sevens" to appeal to the masses in the Olympic Games. The name: "All Blacks" is well known around the world. That's the main reason, Olympic Games coming soon.

Cheers

 

[Big Ewis]

I managed to check out most of the first half. Honestly, I wasn't impressed by Canada and I mean this in the most neutral way possible.
How do you guys feel about that Canada performance ? I'm guessing not thrilled but, I haven't followed Canada in a while and I just would like to know the kind of expectations you fans had.

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Hassler was great, every time he got the ball he made moves. He will become a great Pro if he continues on this. Our game was "loose" but pretty easy to read, most of our cut out passes were easy for Maori to defend.

I liked that they brought energy and flair to the game, but you can't keep losing balls in the contact area. Just stupid. It was also stupid in the final 10ish minutes to kick at the points instead of the corner. This game has no effect on any standings, you might as well go for trys, especially since they wanted to play so loose.

Better game from Canada then other ones I have watched. We have more players that are becoming adequate internationals, and the crowd was great to see. Most people even stayed until the very end.

 

[Toko_11]

how long til they announce squad facing the Lelos ?

 

[rusty_lock]

I managed to check out most of the first half. Honestly, I wasn't impressed by Canada and I mean this in the most neutral way possible.
How do you guys feel about that Canada performance ? I'm guessing not thrilled but, I haven't followed Canada in a while and I just would like to know the kind of expectations you fans had.

MOst people that had realistic expectations didn't expect to much. With a number of top professionals unavailable because the game fell outside the Irb test window there was a thought that this would be real thrashing. That it wasn't probably makes everyone feel a little better about things in general. The reality of a tier II rugby nation is the best you can hope for is 15 better than average player. And that on the given day they all play out of their skins and cause and upset. I happens but not all that often. For most tier II countries there is no depth and limited ability create it. It is not as simple as saying just get more players more overseas contracts. While that would be an answer there are obstacles to making that happen. Player quota's and work permits being top among them there is also the inherent bias against players who come from non-rugby playing nations. There is a natural assumption that they won't have the same rugby IQ that someone growing up tier I country has by naturally being exposed to the game, at it's highest level from a young age. These aren't excuses just explanations why development isn't always as should be for tier II countries since the professional era. Countries like Argentina and Samoa give us hope. They are doing it and starting to knock on the door of the big boys. Both have a ways to go but many tier countries are sitting up and taking notice and the global game will be better for it when it happens

The reality of this game was they were sloppy and were poor securing the ball at the break down. Hopefully that improves next week.

 

[Big Ewis]

MOst people that had realistic expectations didn't expect to much. With a number of top professionals unavailable because the game fell outside the Irb test window there was a thought that this would be real thrashing. That it wasn't probably makes everyone feel a little better about things in general. The reality of a tier II rugby nation is the best you can hope for is 15 better than average player. And that on the given day they all play out of their skins and cause and upset. I happens but not all that often. For most tier II countries there is no depth and limited ability create it. It is not as simple as saying just get more players more overseas contracts. While that would be an answer there are obstacles to making that happen. Player quota's and work permits being top among them there is also the inherent bias against players who come from non-rugby playing nations. There is a natural assumption that they won't have the same rugby IQ that someone growing up tier I country has by naturally being exposed to the game, at it's highest level from a young age. These aren't excuses just explanations why development isn't always as should be for tier II countries since the professional era. Countries like Argentina and Samoa give us hope. They are doing it and starting to knock on the door of the big boys. Both have a ways to go but many tier countries are sitting up and taking notice and the global game will be better for it when it happens

The reality of this game was they were sloppy and were poor securing the ball at the break down. Hopefully that improves next week.

Thanks man. That's the kind of answer I was looking for. Also, cool username
I don't even understand how there are fans at all of Rugby in places like Canada or the US. Especially the U.S., they've got their own football which is much bigger there than their northern neighbors which is basically their own Rugby, so why the heck would they turn to something a little different and not at all an American thing.
But Canada in specific, how the hell do you guys (fans) exist at all ?! Where does the conscience of the sport even come into your lives, and at what point do you decide to try checking it out ?...
I'm sure many people don't even know what "Rugby" is, which is a near impossible thing to find in France or England.

 

[norcalbuff]

Liking rugby and liking American football, or any sport, are not mutually exclusive. Most rugby fans and players in the US also enjoy American football, along with some other sports. I'd be willing to bet most rugby fans and player in Canada also enjoy hockey and probably a number of sports. As for coming across it, for most it isn't a case of waking up one day and deciding to try rugby. Usually you have a friend or meet someone who convinces you to give it a shot. For me, my friend's dad started a team at my high school and I was looking for a sport to play in the spring after basketball finished.

 

[CDN_Rugby]

But Canada in specific, how the hell do you guys (fans) exist at all ?! Where does the conscience of the sport even come into your lives, and at what point do you decide to try checking it out ?...
I'm sure many people don't even know what "Rugby" is, which is a near impossible thing to find in France or England.

Where does the conscience of the sport come from? I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but rugby has a long and deep history in Canada that is as old as the sport itself. Every city has clubs and every school and university has had teams going back decades- the sport has always been present. However, the attitude towards the sport has always been strange. For most people who play the sport in Canada, they start doing it because its the offseason in hockey and they want to play another sport where you can clobber each other. The mentality has always been "If I like beating the **** out of someone on ice, I'll probably like doing it on grass too." Given this attitude of "beating the **** out of someone" is in pretty much every Canadian rugby player, its not difficult to explain why Canada usually gets complimented on their physicality.

And literally every single Canadian knows what rugby is or knows somebody who plays it, especially in British Columbia, Ontario, and Newfoundland. Today any kid in pretty much any school will have a buddy who plays the sport. The thing is that most kids only play from 14-17 and then quit because Rugby Canada and the provinces have traditionally done a poor job of creating an avenue for kids out of high school to continue playing.

 

[Big Ewis]

Liking rugby and liking American football, or any sport, are not mutually exclusive. Most rugby fans and players in the US also enjoy American football, along with some other sports. I'd be willing to bet most rugby fans and player in Canada also enjoy hockey and probably a number of sports. As for coming across it, for most it isn't a case of waking up one day and deciding to try rugby. Usually you have a friend or meet someone who convinces you to give it a shot. For me, my friend's dad started a team at my high school and I was looking for a sport to play in the spring after basketball finished.

Well yeah but that's what I mean, how does that guy's dad just start a Rugby team ? How does a North American stray so far wide and go ultra-original like that, why would he ? It seems like a risky thing, and ppl liking Rugby are only isolating themselves from the rest (well you did say it's not like they're Rugby-exclusive fans..).
I'm guessing the Rugby fanhood in North America is kind of a loner's passion, isn't it ? Like me atm, none of my friends know anything about it here, let alone liking it. Kind of like an odd, almost weird thing a guy's got going....like genitalia-painting, or just generally being a stalker, right ?

 

[Big Ewis]

Where does the conscience of the sport come from? I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but rugby has a long and deep history in Canada that is as old as the sport itself. Every city has clubs and every school and university has had teams going back decades- the sport has always been present. However, the attitude towards the sport has always been strange. For most people who play the sport in Canada, they start doing it because its the offseason in hockey and they want to play another sport where you can clobber each other. The mentality has always been "If I like beating the **** out of someone on ice, I'll probably like doing it on grass too." Given this attitude of "beating the **** out of someone" is in pretty much every Canadian rugby player, its not difficult to explain why Canada usually gets complimented on their physicality.

And literally every single Canadian knows what rugby is or knows somebody who plays it, especially in British Columbia, Ontario, and Newfoundland. Today any kid in pretty much any school will have a buddy who plays the sport. The thing is that most kids only play from 14-17 and then quit because Rugby Canada and the provinces have traditionally done a poor job of creating an avenue for kids out of high school to continue playing.

aaaaah, such insightful information !! This is great. Thanks man.
Well you answered your own question "conscience of the sport ?" by saying that most probably every single Canadian knows 'of' Rugby. That's all the info I needed about that.
Quebeckers are pretty crap at knowing anything about the sport though...just reaaaaaaally not their thing. They're really just all about the ice and the stick.

So I'm guessing it's really in the U.S. that the sport is really obscure....hhhhmmmmmmm....

 

[jonny24]

Rugby has been here almost as long as anywhere else , it was brought over with British immigrants. From there it was played in clubs and schools, and went on to become Nfl and Cfl football. It's just not that big on TV so high school is the first time a lot of people are exposed to it. I remember being on the bus after school one day in grade 9 and seeing them practicing line outs. I asked my friend what it was cus his sister was out there, and he told me it was rugby. I had no clue what that was so he said "basically, football with no pads or breaks". I tried out for the soccer team that year and didn't make it, so next year I tried rugby. Haven't looked back.

 

[canadafan]

my player rankings

1. Buydens (7) - scrummed well and got over the gain line a lot.
2. Barkwill (6) - went well, line out was much better
3. Wooldridge (7) - did well at tighthead until he got hurt, our scrum dominance ended when he went off. Hope the rumours of heading off to Europe are true.
4. Phelan (4) - our worst forward, not ready to start yet. Missed two key tackles which both lead directly to tries.
5. Ardron (8) - seemed to be everyone, looks like he is starting to make his mark on international rugby.
6. Dala (N/A) - went off injured, but seemed to be doing well. Should always be coming off the bench though.
7. Moonlight (6) - tried hard all game long, should be playing pro in Europe.
8. Carpenter (c) (6) - part of the **** up that lead to the first Maori try. A mixed bag today.

9. Mack (6) - Tried hard, maybe did a bit too much. Was the other half of the **** up that lead to the first Maori try.
10. Underwood (5) - some one please teach him tactical kicking! Runs well, defends well, decision making is okay, passing good. But please teach him how (and when) to kick from hand. Our future 10 until O'Leary declares for Canada.
11. Trainor (6) - seems to be finding his game legs, should start again next week.
12. Jones (4) - 2nd worse player on the pitch, I lost count on how many times he knocked on during the game.
13. Hearn (6) - I'll admit it, I see why Crowley persists with him at 13. He seems to be starting to find his grove there. That being said, DTH should still ALWAYS start ahead of him.
14. Hassler (7) - Probably our best back of the day. Don't think you can fault him for those overlap tries. Playing at the Osprey is certainly benefiting him.
15. Evans (6.5) - I thought he went well at FB today, seems to have refound his confidence and is looking like the heir apparent to Pritchard again.

16. Ilnicki (4) - We lost our scrum dominance when he came on, but at 21 his best is ahead of him. He's a keeper.
17. March (N/A) - don't think he saw the field.
18. Flagg (N/A) - Did he get on the pitch?
19. Gilmour (4) - I know he got on, but the only thing I can remember is him getting angry at some Maori players.
20. Kleeberger (6) - Thought he did alright when he got on for Dala, slowly getting back into game shape.
21. Mackenzie (6) - Thought he did well, perhaps he is making a case to be the starter? (in a year or two)
22. Parfrey (5) - Who cares.
23. Braid (3) - Seriously, is he actually TRYING to play himself out of the line up? Think he needs to stick to 7s for a while, he seems to be going better there.

 

[norcalbuff]

Well yeah but that's what I mean, how does that guy's dad just start a Rugby team ? How does a North American stray so far wide and go ultra-original like that, why would he ? It seems like a risky thing, and ppl liking Rugby are only isolating themselves from the rest (well you did say it's not like they're Rugby-exclusive fans..).
I'm guessing the Rugby fanhood in North America is kind of a loner's passion, isn't it ? Like me atm, none of my friends know anything about it here, let alone liking it. Kind of like an odd, almost weird thing a guy's got going....like genitalia-painting, or just generally being a stalker, right ?

He played the game growing up. If you play rugby, it's not a loner's passion at all as anyone who has ever played rugby, or any sport, knows you'll be friends with many of the guys you play with.

 

[Big Ewis]

Rugby has been here almost as long as anywhere else , it was brought over with British immigrants. From there it was played in clubs and schools, and went on to become Nfl and Cfl football. It's just not that big on TV so high school is the first time a lot of people are exposed to it. I remember being on the bus after school one day in grade 9 and seeing them practicing line outs. I asked my friend what it was cus his sister was out there, and he told me it was rugby. I had no clue what that was so he said "basically, football with no pads or breaks". I tried out for the soccer team that year and didn't make it, so next year I tried rugby. Haven't looked back.

ppffffff, heh....you SUCK at soccer....

thx for the very insightful info man ! And sorry for my many crap-takings all over your match-up thread ! Conversation is spontaneous sometimes...and my posts smell like feces.

 

[jonny24]

ppffffff, heh....you SUCK at soccer....

thx for the very insightful info man ! And sorry for my many crap-takings all over your match-up thread ! Conversation is spontaneous sometimes...and my posts smell like feces.

I can't say I'm much better at rugby either :lol: But we only had like 30 guys try out so if you showed up you were on the team.