Fifa World Cup Russia 2018

[RedruthRFC]

You can't import what happens in the villas/favelas in Rio/Buenos Aires to the US. You need to find a way to adjust it to your country/culture.

In a heavily skill based sport, you can't underestimate this. Very much the same in basketball.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Well i mean poorly in a sporting sense only. They seem good at NFL, NHL , NBA, Nascar, MLB but its only sports that either just them or just them and Canada and/or Russia takes seriously. And its national leagues so they compete within themselves.

But in the other sports that most "western" culture countries play they either dont take it seriously or as some have pointed out just dont care about.
So sports like:
Cricket
Rugby
Formula 1 (pinacle of motorracing)
Netball
Football
Hockey

They really fail at, and since this is the only major sports most of the other countries plays its the only way we can compare them with the rest of the world and in the above mentioned sports they do perform poorly, especially for such a large and wealthy country.


They do seem to be good at individual sports such as:
Tennis
golf
swimming
Track and Field

So still want to see a sport that the USA excels in against other countries. Lets be honest what other countries really take up sports such as Ice Hockey and Basketball in a very serious manner?


Regarding Sevens i think the sport really still is in its infancy and no team has reached a high performance, and by that i mean even here in South Africa all the boys just aim for 15 man rugby and if they cant get selected there then they move into sevens. So we arent
taking it up so seriously that we are introducing it at school level in the same manner that we do for 15s and i suspect the other rugby powerhouses are the same hence why they arent really dominating sevens either. But i can tell you now that if nations such as England, NZ, Australia, SA etc. make sevens the priority in schools over 15s and take all their best talent there then the USA would not be nearly as competitive as they are now.

Basketball is taken seriously in a lot of countries, it's probably Europe's second most popular team sport after soccer, it's uncompetitive internationally because the US are that dominant rather than no one caring.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Certainly in countries like
Spain
Greece
and the eastern European countries.
BB is really big.

Also the Scandinavian countries take Ice Hockey very seriously.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Well i mean poorly in a sporting sense only. They seem good at NFL, NHL , NBA, Nascar, MLB but its only sports that either just them or just them and Canada and/or Russia takes seriously. And its national leagues so they compete within themselves.

But in the other sports that most "western" culture countries play they either dont take it seriously or as some have pointed out just dont care about.
So sports like:
Cricket
Rugby
Formula 1 (pinacle of motorracing)
Netball
Football
Hockey

They really fail at, and since this is the only major sports most of the other countries plays its the only way we can compare them with the rest of the world and in the above mentioned sports they do perform poorly, especially for such a large and wealthy country.

You've just asked and answered your own question. According to your South African / Commonwealth definition of sport (evidenced by ignoring Basketball), they do poorly. According to an American definition of sport, they're mind blowingly good.

Cricket = Baseball, the pinnacle of the sport is MLB, dominiated by American teams of largely American athletes.
Rugby = NFL, as above.
F1 = NASCAR, similar, although F1 is the pinnacle, America is happy with what they have and dominate hugely.
Netball = Women's basketball. I don't know if international competition is the pinnacle or the WNBA, but either way, the Americans dominate. Hats off to them for spotting that basketball is by far the superior sport.
Football, not their sport - a pass time / novelty to all but a few. We'll know they're taking it seriously when serious University programmes are introduced and no doubt they will come on leaps and bounds, although they won't be able to cherry pick as easily as other sports as clubs worldwide already have their claws into players.
Hockey = NHL? If so, much more internationally competitive than you're giving it credit for, but America are decent. Same goes if you look at lacrosse as the equivalent.

Given that America don't set out to be world beaters in any of these sports, I don't see how you can say that they fail, just that they're not very good.

They do seem to be good at individual sports such as:
Tennis
golf
swimming
Track and Field

So still want to see a sport that the USA excels in against other countries. Lets be honest what other countries really take up sports such as Ice Hockey and Basketball in a very serious manner?

Mostly individual sports, competed in by teams of people. The American Davis Cup / Ryder Cup / Swim Team / Track Teams are all up there with the best and probably the best over the history of the sports.

Regarding Sevens i think the sport really still is in its infancy and no team has reached a high performance, and by that i mean even here in South Africa all the boys just aim for 15 man rugby and if they cant get selected there then they move into sevens. So we arent
taking it up so seriously that we are introducing it at school level in the same manner that we do for 15s and i suspect the other rugby powerhouses are the same hence why they arent really dominating sevens either. But i can tell you now that if nations such as England, NZ, Australia, SA etc. make sevens the priority in schools over 15s and take all their best talent there then the USA would not be nearly as competitive as they are now.

So you could say that the Americans are 50 years ahead in the approach that they are taking?

All a long worded way of saying that I don't understand why you think that not dominating sports that they don't try to dominate or care about is evidence that their approach to achieving sporting success isn't awesome. I would suggest looking at what they do do, rather than what they don't do. The number of talented kids from all around the world who end up in the US collegiate system speaks volumes to me, as does the amount of American expertise and facilities that elite athletes from all around the world take advantage of in preference to what's in their own countries.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Basketball is taken seriously in a lot of countries, it's probably Europe's second most popular team sport after soccer, it's uncompetitive internationally because the US are that dominant rather than no one caring.

The world's fifth biggest participation sport according to the first article that Google threw up. More competitive than most give it credit for - calling yourself the Dream Team and turning up is no longer a guarantee of success (hence the Redeem Team), although I suspect that if Team USA prepared in the same way as other national, they'd still be a long way ahead to the curve.

 

[unrated]

I certainly think that they have a very high performance setting in their domestic leagues and the crux of the argument would be then that they just dont care about the other international competitions hence why they are not up there with the top countries in each sport respectively. The argument that they just do not care about the other sports is not something i can argue for or against, and yes i understand that if the kids grow up in their systems wanting to be NFL or MLB players then sports like rugby and cricket will be fringe sports there resulting in them having less registered players in the sport, resulting in smaller pools to choose from and consequently less talent available.


But my point still is that in the major international sports (call it commonwealth sports if you will) they do perform poorly, and even taking into account if they have less players available as a result of the competing sports they do perform poorly in comparison to the other countries in the sports i mentioned (Football included). What is poorly? I would say not being competitive in the sport. they are not competitive. You can make the case for rugby sevens but even their football is average at best. Sure they might in the future be great but currently they just arent doing that well against other countries in international sport (Except for that individual events i mentioned in the earlier post, team track and field included as it still relies heavily on that individual component)

in summary, i get the point they like what they do (MLB, NFL etc.) and consider themselves great in that respect but the only sports that is played internationally in a serious manner is Ice Hockey and Basketball, the rest they really are not at the level of the other countries and with that i say they are performing poorly. The only way we can compare them with other countries is if they play them, we cant compare their level of NFL if only they play it competitively.

 

[DumbAmerican]

I'm 34 years old. I played American football, baseball, basketball, soccer, and tennis at an organized youth level. I played soccer as a fall sport from around age 6-8, again at 11-12, and then for three years in high school. I played American football at 9-10, and then again in 8th grade just before high school.

I never had a coach in soccer who played even at the high school level. It was always just some dad who bought a book which showed him some drills. Our high school team was club level instead of varsity. The coach was the school janitor who volunteered. In ever other sport from the earliest age on there would be at least one coach for each team who had at least reached the small college level as a player. Soccer was the one sport where you didn't have American parents yelling at each other, or the refs, or the coaches in the stands. You could tell they didn't care. (The Yugoslav refugee parents who were in both town where I grew up did lose their minds at the soccer games while their kids ran circles around us.) So you probably didn't have many dads doing extra drills with their kids. My dad definitely never drilled me like he did in other sports. Soccer wasn't the sport that kids played in the neighborhood played for fun after school (that would be football and basketball mostly). There's a saying that soccer has been the sport of the future in the US since the 1970s. That's because it's been one of the most played youth sports since then. I think it might have even been number 1 in participation numbers when I was a kid. What I'm saying is that while youth soccer was widely available across the country, it wasn't developed in large parts of the country and people didn't really care if their kids were any good.

Now, I grew up in small towns, but there were kids who went on to play college ball in every sport except soccer. The youth infrastructure has gotten better. And the game is much more popular with kids who came up a decade after me, and then much, much more popular with kids today. But our youth structure is so radically different than what goes on in Europe and Latin America. I don't buy the argument that all we need is our best athletes to go into soccer instead of basketball and football. Athleticism isn't the problem for the US national team. We don't develop the proper touch from a young age, so our players are less skilled on the ball.

 

[DumbAmerican]

At any rate, I think what Cruz was saying is that sabermetrics is way more advanced in the US than other countries. Obviously, the focus of the traditional US sports are the domestic leagues rather than international competition, even though basketball is one of the most popular sports in the world and baseball and hockey probably compare to rugby in how many countries care alot about the game. I have no idea Cruz's point is true. My perception is that baseball was the first sport to be transformed by data analysis in the 90s and early 00s, and now it's spread like wildfire to the other sports over the past decade. Basketball especially has been transformed.

Football, not their sport - a pass time / novelty to all but a few. We'll know they're taking it seriously when serious University programmes are introduced and no doubt they will come on leaps and bounds, although they won't be able to cherry pick as easily as other sports as clubs worldwide already have their claws into players.

I don't see college soccer taking off as the way to develop US based players. There are already 206 Division 1 teams, and there doesn't seem to be any growing spectator interest. 99% of the guys who are going to be on the national team will already be signed up to pro contracts, by the time they get to college aged.​

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

You could tell they didn't care.

Thank you. That is exactly what i experienced.

I think what Cruz was saying is that sabermetrics is way more advanced in the US than other countries.

\
There are two parts to this. One is the amount of info and insights you get from that, and the other is how much you use those insights to improve.
In both aspects the US is aeons ahead.

It is mind blowing that the most popular sport of the world is so far behind in this aspect. The strangest thing, is that there are people with the knowledge and info. There's dutch website (11tegen11.net) which has amazing professional level analytics from pretty much any big game. I've talked to a few pro coaches in Arg and Europe and their knowledge of analytics was negligible at best.

Even rugby is ahead, way ahead of football in this sense.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Allez Les Bleus.

 

[unrated]

On another note i would like to publicly call right now that Belgium is going to kick Brazil out of this edition of the World Cup.

Belgium progresses 2-1 im starting to beleive that they will win the world cup

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So Europe wins, everyone goes home?

 

[unrated]

So Europe wins, everyone goes home?

Russia is still in it. Dont know if everyone considers them European. Although i do concede their chances are little.

On annother note i see Britain is boycoting this world cup. Wonder if they will still boycot it if England makes the final. If they didnt attend a possible win then that would make them look bad. Also if they suddenly change their mind anf go after their success they would look weak so kinda a catch 22 the only way the british government can succesfully overcome this scenarion in order for it to appear as a diplomatic win is if England falls out before the final

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No one wants the British government there, let alone the English fans/team.

I didn't even realise they were boycotting it, tbh - remember hearing that they might when there was the ex-spy poisoning but nothing since.
Equally: Why would/should they go anyway?
Imagine Theresa May sat in the stands singing three lions

 

[Leinster Fan]

Russia is still in it. Dont know if everyone considers them European. Although i do concede their chances are little.

On annother note i see Britain is boycoting this world cup. Wonder if they will still boycot it if England makes the final. If they didnt attend a possible win then that would make them look bad. Also if they suddenly change their mind anf go after their success they would look weak so kinda a catch 22 the only way the british government can succesfully overcome this scenarion in order for it to appear as a diplomatic win is if England falls out before the final

Russia are definitely European. The final will be in Europe, most if the population lives in Europe and crucially they play in UEFA for football purposes.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

mmmm.

Russia is a big place and is split between multiple continents Western Russia is European though.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Deserved!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

****. It might come home.

 

[ncurd]

****. It might come home.

Just think how insufferable every Englishman will be...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just think how insufferable every Englishman will be...

If it happens we'll have to win next year. I think the way we, as countries, celebrate really doesn't sit well with the other.

Edit: I'll just want to puke but there's a lot of people in this country who'll get angry and depressed if you do it.