Aside from that 12 game winning streak (370 days, but avoided Ireland & SA), he's managed 8 wins from 33
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Fiji vs England - 11/7/26
- Thread starter TRF_Olyy
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Stupid thing is that in among all the dross his teams have beaten all the teams currently ranked above us bar the Boks and there’s no shame in that. The records v NZ and Fra also contain some near misses and the semi v the Boks was another that really should’ve been nailed.
It’s the hope that kills. But for all the data there doesn’t seem to be a clear plan or trajectory.
As for this selection, if Fiji are in it at 60 they’ll fancy their chances, our bench contains too many inexperienced / half fit for comfort. But I think our starting pack should have too much.
It’s the hope that kills. But for all the data there doesn’t seem to be a clear plan or trajectory.
As for this selection, if Fiji are in it at 60 they’ll fancy their chances, our bench contains too many inexperienced / half fit for comfort. But I think our starting pack should have too much.
Hopefully.
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Definitely still some bits not to like in there (the big one goes without saying) but structurally I do feel as though that team is a step in the right direction.
Freeman back to wing, a 13 at 13, a 5:3 bench (finally!!!). I think that team is capable of playing better rugby than what we saw last weekend.
Freeman back to wing, a 13 at 13, a 5:3 bench (finally!!!). I think that team is capable of playing better rugby than what we saw last weekend.
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I'll be interested to see how Caluori goes - i've not been impressed by him outside of the Sale games, obviously his work in the air is unreal but everything else has looked a bit.....eh
Will be a good test up against the Fijians, on defence, if they get a bit of ball when he's on
Will be a good test up against the Fijians, on defence, if they get a bit of ball when he's on
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Didn't England go with three smaller opensides at 6,7,8 during there 12 game run.
Regardless a rucksack speed under 6 seconds will be nice for a start.
Regardless a rucksack speed under 6 seconds will be nice for a start.
You clearly missed him single handedly destroying the powerhouse that is Newcastle.
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Who?You clearly missed him single handedly destroying the powerhouse that is Newcastle.
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It honestly feels like throwing **** at a wall and seeing what sticks. He's hoping to stumble onto a recipe for success. He thought he had last year, but reality bit back hard this year.
My issue is, if freeman at 14, Slade at 13, fin at 10 etc all work, we now have a situation where the fans again know more than Borthwick. We’ve seen it time and time again where the fans have said that work work and it hasn’t and Borthwick takes like two weeks to adjust something the fans already know.
And surely we should try are weaker combinations (like Freeman at 13 if we must) vs Fiji and not the number 1 team in the world.
Once again the logic is backwards and there doesn’t appear to be a plan just reactions all the time.
And surely we should try are weaker combinations (like Freeman at 13 if we must) vs Fiji and not the number 1 team in the world.
Once again the logic is backwards and there doesn’t appear to be a plan just reactions all the time.
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JVP has had a good season tbf and Mitchell is coming back from injury so if SB sees JVP as next in line it's good for him to get some experience even though Mitchell is first choice.
Not that I'm advocating for yet more changes for changes' sake, but he was appalling last weekend. Dan Cole would have got the ball away from the ruck faster and probably kick more accurately as well. Sucks that McParland picked up an injury, I'd liked to have seen how he went in this game
With Mitchell and Quirke (If his move keeps him injury free), and McParland, Friday, Joe Davies (Falcons) etc coming through...im really hoping we can develop a world class number 9 for a change.
Obviously biased, but I think Lucas is really pushing on. A bit of work on his kicking and I think he'll be mustard this season
We have number coming through, im just sick of seeing real potential not being realized. Surely from a couple of these we can produce a top top class 9. Mitchell is pretty good to be fair to him.
But im not sold on JVP and Quirke well we know the crack there....
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Just need to find a world class 6 and 12 then!!!
Alongside all the back up potential!!!
Alongside all the back up potential!!!
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Mcparland on form is ahead i agree but injured, Quirke has been injured alot and not lived up to potential at club level yet. And ill judge him off multiple games not just a terrible performance vs SA. I'm not sold he's the future but he is very good and right now I'd have him above Spencer personally.
Mcparland, Quirke, and in the future Friday(I think) are app good to check out but what i don't want is Mitchell and Spencer and then no one else like we have at hooker. Get JVP experience while Mitchell is not being rushed back especially as he was on form at tigers even if others are ahead.
Now just cool your jets there.... such high expectations
I agree about Quirke. His career and development has been hampered by injury. But hes still only 24...if his move up here can fix those injury issues then we may see what he can actually do on a consistent basis. Joe Davies our young falcon is a classy young player with jet engines in his boots. Hes been over in NZ with Canterbury recently as we have a partnership with them now. Can only help.
And young Friday looks a hell of a prospect aswell.
Current order
1. Mitchell
2. JVp - Quirke
3. The kids developuing...
24?! Christ I was starting to think he was on the verge of retiring
Both him and JVP came through the same U20’s year I think mental considering it feels both should be late 20’s
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Quirke would wanna learn to kick and/or pass before any talk of England again, really
His fundamentals are regressing not improving
His fundamentals are regressing not improving
spartan32
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I’ve been so traumatised by England in the 6N I haven’t been able to muster the energy to write a single word here in a while, and just as I thought I might be recovered we get completely stuffed by SA in a men against boys competition causing an almost total relapse, but then I had an moment of clarity. This is it now. Until
SB and his entire setup are sent packing, this is what we have to look forward to. The talents there, and maybe they might occasionally break their chains and play some rugby to the standard we’d expect, but soon after their spirits will be broken by the dreary bludgeoning of Borthwicks spreadsheet driven madness, and the grey, repetitive and ineffective style will resume.
We may have enough to turn over both Fiji and Argentina, even under the constraints of the current coaching setup I suspect it will ugly, uninspiring and moral sapping. I feel for the players, especially the young ones. I only hope their spirits are not completely broken before someone new can come in a turn things around.
As for the game Saturday it’s good to see Slade get the recognition he deserves, and to have Freeman and IFW on the wings, with Fin starting at 10. Can’t fathom why MS keeps being plonked at 15. He’s doing ok all things considered but the lads a 10 and should be subbing in for Fin. As for the SA fella is he really so good that the likes of Ojomo are completely overlooked? Seems like desperation to me.
Anyway. I’ll be watching on Saturday like a self harming glutton for punishment. If you don’t hear from me for a while thereafter I’ll be in intense therapy trying desperately to find my calm.
SB and his entire setup are sent packing, this is what we have to look forward to. The talents there, and maybe they might occasionally break their chains and play some rugby to the standard we’d expect, but soon after their spirits will be broken by the dreary bludgeoning of Borthwicks spreadsheet driven madness, and the grey, repetitive and ineffective style will resume.
We may have enough to turn over both Fiji and Argentina, even under the constraints of the current coaching setup I suspect it will ugly, uninspiring and moral sapping. I feel for the players, especially the young ones. I only hope their spirits are not completely broken before someone new can come in a turn things around.
As for the game Saturday it’s good to see Slade get the recognition he deserves, and to have Freeman and IFW on the wings, with Fin starting at 10. Can’t fathom why MS keeps being plonked at 15. He’s doing ok all things considered but the lads a 10 and should be subbing in for Fin. As for the SA fella is he really so good that the likes of Ojomo are completely overlooked? Seems like desperation to me.
Anyway. I’ll be watching on Saturday like a self harming glutton for punishment. If you don’t hear from me for a while thereafter I’ll be in intense therapy trying desperately to find my calm.
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SH is an interesting one as they can really be central to the way the whole team plays, Dupont and JGP being obvious examples in 2 very different ways. For all our concerns about hookers and centres 9 may actually be one of our biggest problems.
Mitchell’s a good player and our best by a distance. But even then I’m not sure how many other top teams he’d get into? Not NZ, SA, Fra and Ire for sure. Prob not Wales and I’m not sure on others.
Youngs and Care racked up a load of caps but only really flickered intermittently. I think you probably have to go back to Dawson for a scrummy with a bit of nerve who could make things happen that other teams really feared.
Mitchell’s a good player and our best by a distance. But even then I’m not sure how many other top teams he’d get into? Not NZ, SA, Fra and Ire for sure. Prob not Wales and I’m not sure on others.
Youngs and Care racked up a load of caps but only really flickered intermittently. I think you probably have to go back to Dawson for a scrummy with a bit of nerve who could make things happen that other teams really feared.
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Is that Mitchell and Co's fault or are they stuck under Borthwick and not allowed to play their natural game? We don't know for sure, but the fact that so many players seem to play worse for England than their club (and that includes European games), suggests it's a coaching issue.
i think its alot to do with Gameplan definately....but i also think there is a gap in ability.
I think Mitchell is quality, but im not sure the chasing pack are there (Spencer, Quirke, JVP) ....which is why i have quite hopeful expectations of the next batch.
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JvP for Leicester vs England is night and day
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Yep.
And that may well reflect on what he’s being asked to do at international level. But it may also just be saying that his ceiling is good club player. There’s only one way to find out.
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Definitely gameplan because we've seen him play well for England when the shackles are off, it's absolutely a Borthwick/Wiggles issue
