Football Thread

Discussion in 'All Other Sports' started by TRF_Cymro, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Thingimubob

    Thingimubob Senior Member

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    Definitely agree that Juve players took it too far, and that for once a referee actually did something about it, as there's no place for treating the ref like that in any sport.

    However, I can definitely see where the reaction was coming from... I'm personally very skeptical that it was a penalty. Vasquez looks like he was on his way down before any sort of contact was made, and doesn't look like much contact at all anyway.

    Then again, seems to be one of those controversial 50/50s with plenty of people saying it was and plenty of people saying it wasn't.
     
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  3. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    I tend to be not very categorical when it comes to this sort of calls. I watched every single angle 10 times (each), heard 50's pundits and at least 20 ref's opinions about.
    You could have seen me arguing against the Spanish when de jong wasn't red carded in 2010's final (there is a potential scenario the ref could have considered which is consistent with his decision, albeit unpopular).
    Or against the Argentines when Neuer nearly decapitated Higuain in 2014 but could still see both sides of the argument.

    I cannot, for the life of me, understand how an impartial (doesn't really care who wins) fan/pundit/referee can look at that play on TV, from those angles, and still claim it is not a penalty.
    I just can't.

    You could easily argue there were at least two penalties in one single play (push and kick).

    I am by no means a Real Madrid supporter. I like some of it's players (Modric) and despise pretty much everything others bring to the table (Ronaldo).
    I couldn't give a flying turd if they win or lose.
    I understand why everyone goes against Madrid (Juve was the cinderella story here) and considering the past (RM got two controversial goals last 2 seasons against Bayern and Atletico).
    I get it, people like payback and they like to see Real Madrid lose. Me too, but not by creating new interpretations of the rules (or new rules altogether).

    That play, that exact same play happens in the middle of the field and it would have been a yellow card and even the most staunch Juve supporter would have called his player a bloody idiot, deservedly so.

    It is mind blowing that so many people do not understand the rules. I can understand why pro real madrid people will have a particular view like the people against them will have the opposite one. Not my point. At first i thought it was a minority but no, there are TONS of people, former player, coaches and refs who are known to have no affiliation and still claim there was no penalty or that the penalty is dubious.

    I am flabbergasted. Lost for words.

    I can even understand the "you don't call that on the 93rd minute". It's an idiotic argument, but it basically admits it is a penalty. But no, some people, people who made money out of the sport for a living who watch that play and sincerely think it was not a penalty.

    It's as if someone created two rule books and gave half the planet one and the other half the other, just to see what happens.
     
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  4. themole25

    themole25 Senior Member

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    guy at my club who refs second tier pro games in the US was on the non a penalty side... but i don't get how a knee and two hands to the back of a guy that just needs to tap it in is not a penalty.
     
  5. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    I don't get it. When i see a problem due to my education, i like a carthesian aproach, so i like to break the problem down to it's smallest components to see precisely where the disagreement lies.
    It's an incredibly powerful methodology to see if the other party a) knows what he is talking about b) is arguing to win as opposed to finding a solution.

    There are two issues here.
    First, there is a push from the back.
    Second, even if you disregard 1) and assume he touched the ball, he did so by hitting his opponent in the ribs.
    Both are punishable offenses as per the rules.

    I try to follow the same approach for every sport
    1) What happened, exactly
    2) What do the rules say
    3) How do 1) and 2) reconcile

    Every single argument I've heard from the non penalty camp disregards 1) and/or 2) and appeals to philosophy 101 falacies (appeal to emotion, strawmans, etc).
     
  6. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    Liverpool v Roma; Bayern v Real.
     
  7. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    Come on Roma or whoever faces Liverpool in the final!
     
  8. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    Man U fan?
     
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  9. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    Nah, just hate Liverpool's Irish following.
     
  10. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    Ah right, but Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers’ etc Irish following are all so much nicer than Liverpool’s.:rolleyes:
     
  11. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    Not at all (although the fat bald man in a soccer jersey with an English clubs crest tattooed onto him is more synonymous with Liverpool than the rest), I hate [Insert English Club without an Irish player in their side here]'s Irish following is probably a better statement although Liverpool do receive some added ire considering their local rivals actually have Irish players and more cultural ties to Ireland historically. I don't really think anyone should support a team, buy all the merchandise etc... of a foreign club with no Irish connections while the Irish league and Irish soccer struggle because of it. Celtic is a bit different because they were set up by Irish for Irish but I wouldn't support them either.

    The more I think about it I just don't like soccer in Ireland in general despite not disliking the sport, it feels like a waste of resources being provided to a perennially incompetent sporting body (FAI) when we have sports like rugby, golf, boxing, football and hurling among others providing far better athletes with smaller catchment areas. English soccer contribute a hell of a lot more to this than any other country outside Ireland so their clubs receive no love from me! The fact Liverpool have a following here at all is our own failing and its become insurmountable at this stage.

    Disclaimer: I supported Man U until I was 12 so this opinion is not without some minor hypocrisy but I couldn't tell you where they are in the EPL or how far they got in the CL because I don't follow the former and only really become interested in the later rounds of the latter. I have little interest in football outside of international football because I don't believe (m)any clubs have retained the identity they were formed with.
     
  12. mosfeldt

    mosfeldt Senior Member

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    You're bang on Alpha Bro. I know some lads at work who are die-hard Arsenal or Liverpool supporters and I just don't understand how. They've never been to Liverpool or Highbury stadium yet they buy all the merch, refer to them as "we" and "us", get genuinely sad when they lose. But why? There is zero connection, and the players themselves of that team have zero connection to the town/area they're meant to represent. Like to me it's so empty. What difference does it make if you support Liverpool or Man U? It's teams are devoid of anyone Irish and more importantly for those clubs are almost devoid of any English players. It's an international rag tag bunch of mercenaries that will be playing at "their" rival's club a few years later. There is no link. The only difference between them is the name of the club and the home ground. I can understand someone from Liverpool for example supporting these mercenary teams because well, they're representing their hometown, even if none of them are from Liverpool. But to see some of my work colleagues be so fanatic about their devotion to Arsenal or whatever just strikes me as a bit sad.

    I love Munster rugby because for the most part they are my boys, they come from the same towns and villages I do, have an underlying similar life experience to me as a result, and represent us, the people of Limerick, Clare, Cork, etc on the European stage and make us proud of who we are and where we come from. When I go to Thomond Park, or even watch it on the telly, I feel a connection to my homeland, my roots, my community. How can you say the same about Arsenal? What does it actually mean to them, as an Irish person who's never set foot in Chelsea or Manchester and probably never will? I understand loving the sport of football and wanting to watch it to a high standard but it all seems so fake and when I ask why they support such and such club I'm met with the lamest responses - "My dad supported them", "When I was a kid I loved the colour red" (not even joking on that one), etc.

    It's a shame because I do genuinely enjoy soccer but we have almost **** all in the way of a good domestic soccer league here. My friends make the effort and sometimes go to Galway Utd matches when they're on, knowing it's gonna be some shite footy, knowing Galway will probably get hammered, but they know that it supports Irish soccer, and any funding and support it gets goes towards building a good domestic league. If all these Liverpool supporters would stop buying all this merch and paying supporters club fees and you know actually invest in Irish soccer, we might have some Irish footy that's half worth a watch.
     
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  13. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker Senior Member

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    So our brave heroes who will plucily scrap to get out of their group have been named.

    Good luck to them. But we all know that the dice are loaded against and they won’t be at the sharp end. Again.

    There will be 5 minutes naval gazing where everyone will blame money, influx of foreign players, coaches and owners, number of games played, lack of a winter break, pre season tours etc. And quick as a flash nothing will change. Again. And repeat in 4 years.
     
  14. Big_Grumper

    Big_Grumper Senior Member

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    I love tournament time! Everyone's an armchair pundit; everyone has an opinion about who should have / shouldn't have been picked. The TV schedule will be dominated by 90 minutes of football sandwiched between two hours of preamble, highlights, insight and 'reaction'.
     
  15. Rich Taff

    Rich Taff Senior Member

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    Don't forget mentions of 1966
     
  16. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    When you think about it, it's amazing how 2 silly mistakes from a goal keeper from another team completely ruined Barcelona's year.
     
  17. Sixways Cheryl

    Sixways Cheryl Senior Member

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    I think I must be getting soft as I get older because I genuinely feel so bad for Karius, the Liverpool goalkeeper. Very strange how his team mates left him on his own at the end of the match - it was the Madrid players who went over to console him. 'You'll never walk alone' clearly doesn't mean a lot...
     
  18. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    I actually thought the team mates were more than ok.
    You can't judge them by their reactions a split second after the ref blows the whistle. Everyone is distraught at that point. They are all millimeters away from losing the plot.
    But i saw interviews with two LFC players within say, 30 min after the game and they both said :"we win together we lose together" and backed up karius.

    I actually think everyone was quite sympathetic with Karius, specially after he apologized in tear.
    Except barcelona fans, of course.
     
  19. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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  20. ragerancher

    ragerancher Senior Member

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    Anyone watching England vs Spain now? The best I've seen England for a while.
     
  21. CraigWarrior

    CraigWarrior Member

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    Watching Bournemouth v Arsenal in 20 mins. Maybe i should be watching the Rugby instead. I will see later. Anyway i am defo watching Dragons at tea-time. Football and Rugby day= Heaven.
     
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