Foreigners captaining national teams

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by mosfeldt, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. mosfeldt

    mosfeldt Member

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    I recently read an article about Stander and in the comments section someone said that Stander would do well, in the future, as an Irish captain. Obviously he is not Irish, and that comment caused a lot of uproar, with some people commending it. It's a bit of a weird one, as people can obviously naturalize themselves into their adopted country over the course of the years, especially if you're doing something like consistently representing that country at an international level. My mother is Greek but has lived here for 30 years and of course speaks fluent English with an Irish accent, and pretty much considers herself Irish as much as Greek. I feel this type of principle should translate onto the rugby pitch, but I feel many people would disagree with this.

    What is your opinion on this? And are there many instances of international players captaining countries they're not from? Personally, if Stander continues to deliver top class performances, some of which hopefully lead to international titles, and if he is happy to do so at the age of 30 onwards or whatever, then I'd have no problem with him being our captain. He strikes me as captain material already. I mean, our coach is Kiwi, so would it really make that huge of a difference?

    Thoughts please.
     
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  3. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    If he wants it and its best for the team I see no issue. Calls against it are Paul Kimmage influenced bull****, the guy has his heart set on ruining rugby like he did cycling and will spew any nonsense to do it.
     
  4. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    We have a Kiwi captain and in the past Im sure Mike Catt has captaining England once. If hes eligible to play hes eligible to captain.

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    Also Dave Sole the great Scottish captain was English.

    We are all just a bunch of mongrels anyway
     
  5. MysteriousSandwich

    MysteriousSandwich Senior Member

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    Of course those principles should translate onto the rugby pitch, ignore anyone saying otherwise.
    If people have a battle to fight around nationality/naturalisation laws because they think it's too easy to become qualified, it happens on a policy-making level not within selection. If ,as is the case now, no laws prevent Stander becoming captain, then resistance to him becoming captain falls firmly within the bounds of discrimination. This is the case regardless of whether the laws on nationality are weak. Point is, anyone proposing that he shouldn't be captain is advocating discrimination. If you don't like the rules, challenge them in the right place.
     
  6. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    We've had a bit in Cricket, most notable is Morgan captaining the one day side (we've also had South African born captains). Morgan qualified for England as Ireland don't have test status, can't say I agree much with that decision.

    I'm a little against people like Stander even representing Ireland he didn't move until he was 22 and had played for SA U20 and U18. Qualifying after 3 years residency just seams wrong as well.

    Look I don't give a damn about country of origin but I think to 'represent a country' there has to be a level (Hartley for instance moved over here at 16, never played age grade for NZ and has an English mother).

    There's a line Morgan and Stander cross it, Hartley does not. Mike Catt is pretty much on the line and massively complicated by Apartheid.




    However if you qualify it shouldn't stop you being 'captain'.
     
  7. FrenchFan

    FrenchFan Senior Member

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    I can't imagine a foreigner captaining les Bleus. The union has closed the door now to foreign players in the national team. Moot point for us.
     
  8. Car

    Car Senior Member

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    And France will be better off for it. Otherwise there's hardly a difference between national teams and clubs/franchises.
     
  9. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 Senior Member

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    People forget/don't know that Ireland has already had a South African captain. It was just when not as many people cared and he happened to have a more Irish sounding name than anyone. Dion O'Cuinneagain was captains for a 5N, tour of Australia and World Cup.

    I wouldn't have a problem with Stander captaining, if he's able to play for us why shouldn't he be able to captain us? Once he had earned it I'd be fine with it.
     
  10. Groundhog

    Groundhog Senior Member

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    Stander has been selected in the team, why not as captain if he was the best man for the job. I don't like the concept of project players, but if they're to be selected they should be treated as if their name was Mícháel Ó Muircheartaigh from the lake isle of Innisfree as far as I'm concerned. I've no doubt that Stander would make a fantastic captain anyway. Playing for Ireland means a great deal to him.
    With public opinion turning against project players, I reckon Stander would probably be the only foreigner likely to have a chance of captaining the country, but still pretty unlikely.
    Saying project players are ok, but not as captain is bloody silly. It's like saying, oh yes I have my convictions on this, but only to a certain point.
     
  11. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Stander sort of sounds like a Celtic name (if you say it in a Irish or Scottish voice both of which are basically the same accents) so fits in with Ireland a Wee bit. (CJ could stand for Connor Jarlath).

    Very Celtic southern Irish name.

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    Would people class Manu as foreign? Not saying he should captain just wondering if it would chase the same argument.
     
  12. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    I didn't think anythibg could be added to the celtic thing to irk me more... Well done.
     
  13. Groundhog

    Groundhog Senior Member

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    Don't bring your dirty non Celtic bloodline into this you Scottish/Irish mongrel dog! We were Kings of Munster mate.
     
  14. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Senior Member

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    Dude... You look about as celtic as Tiger Woods!
     
  15. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    The C in CJ might also stand for Cromwell!!!!!
     
  16. Groundhog

    Groundhog Senior Member

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    U calling us all Iberian mate?
     
  17. Groundhog

    Groundhog Senior Member

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    Or hey why not Cambodia? Then we'd both have players with the actual names of another country on our team.
     
  18. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Who is the England player?
     
  19. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Kimmage is a complete idiot. Will love it when he tries to visit Thomond Park. And your bang on in that he is mad to ruin rugby.
    He may not like the residency rule but Stander never broke 1 rule and he seems to have a vendetta out against him for no reason just to be relevant in a popular sport.
     
  20. Groundhog

    Groundhog Senior Member

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    Manusamoa Tuilagi of course! Was considering changing my first name to that for a while now.
     
  21. corny

    corny Senior Member

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    No problem with Stander being captain. All about what he produces on the pitch.
     
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