France fined $15,000 for haka advance

Kiwiwomble · Oct 25, 2011

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5846618/Standing-up-to-the-haka-top-challenges

check this out for some entertainment, loved it!

smartcooky · Oct 25, 2011

Wally said:
What do you think? I thought it was a great way to make a statement. From a fan point of view it added to the excitement and build up of the match when just watching the haka on its own was starting to become boring. In my opinion the IRB treat the haka like its some endangered species. If the All Blacks are allowed to get that 'edge' from performing it, teams should be able to face it however they want.

Absolutely and utterly ridiculous. The iRB seriously needs to get a ****ing life!!

smartcooky · Oct 25, 2011

King_D'Arcy said:
Christ! What a ridiculous rule. It's put in place because it's considered "disrespectful". It could be considered pretty disrespectful of the All Blacks to perform a tribal song and dance that contains death threats. They are literally threatening their opponents with death. Teams should be allowed respond to that anyway they please short of violence.

Please realise D'arcy that the vast (and I mean VAST) majority of Kiwis welcome the sort of thing that France did on Sunday night. Haka is a challenge, and the French responded to that challenge in a way that gains our respect.

Dizzy · Oct 25, 2011

Couldn't have said it better myself smartcooky.

Rhyer · Oct 25, 2011

I loved seeing it, I would pay the fine for them if I had that sort of money but they're all pretty rich so I guess they can pay it, but man it was epic! I'm just upset that the All Blacks didn't go forward to go eye to eye with them! It was absolutely beautiful.

Sam91 · Oct 25, 2011

bullshit rule, how about the irb give the money to the nzru at least for all the money they lost this world

centurion · Oct 25, 2011

i don't understand it, what is IRB's problem?

Zapphod · Oct 25, 2011

centurion said:
i don't understand it, what is IRB's problem?

Much like every organisation they eventually end up being officious revenue collectors with no real connection to the game they are officiating, you just have to look at FIFA realise this.

My opinion is that it should have been up to the NZRFU to put in a complaint before the IRB got involved and since the NZRFU felt there was no problem with French actions there was no need to take this any further.

centurion · Oct 25, 2011

Zapphod said:
Much like every organisation they eventually end up being officious revenue collectors with no real connection to the game they are officiating, you just have to look at FIFA realise this.

My opinion is that it should have been up to the NZRFU to put in a complaint before the IRB got involved and since the NZRFU felt there was no problem with French actions there was no need to take this any further.

Thankyou, i agree totally.

ranger · Oct 25, 2011

http://www.facebook.com/CampbellLiveNZ/posts/10150896650915226

james5000 · Oct 25, 2011

ranger said:
http://www.facebook.com/CampbellLiveNZ/posts/10150896650915226

They might not get fined and I don't think they should get fined.

BUT

Campbell live must have something better to fund raise for, let them pay their own fine. The French are loaded, pretty pathetic really.

*Might have to hit them up to help fund raise for my missus fines haha, the idiot keeps on getting parking tickets.

Sam Owen · Oct 25, 2011

They wont get fined, surely.

Bazzy · Oct 25, 2011

Would be sad if they get fined. Thought what they did was awesome, perfectly set up the final.

William18 · Oct 25, 2011

King_D'Arcy said:
Christ! What a ridiculous rule. It's put in place because it's considered "disrespectful". It could be considered pretty disrespectful of the All Blacks to perform a tribal song and dance that contains death threats. They are literally threatening their opponents with death. Teams should be allowed respond to that anyway they please short of violence.

The All Blacks preformed Kapo O Pango on sunday night. Tell me where in the following lyrics you see "death threats"?

"Kapa o Pango"

It is really quite ironic that Kapo O Pango is a more controversial haka than Ka Mate. And, as has already been said, most New Zealanders are happy for people to advance on the haka. Even Buck Shelford, the man to credit for the way in which we do the haka, praised Willie Anderson for accepting the challenge all those years ago.

France probably do deserve to be fined though. The rule is there for a reason (to stop violence) and they would have known that advancing on the haka causes a fine. To them it may have still be worth it.

One other thing I question is the notion that the haka gives us an advantage. Does it really? Many people think it is detrimental. You have to divert training time to the haka and away from rugby.

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator

TRF Legend

Oct 25, 2011

#35

William18 said:

The All Blacks preformed Kapo O Pango on sunday night. Tell me where in the following lyrics you see "death threats"?

"Kapa o Pango"

It is really quite ironic that Kapo O Pango is a more controversial haka than Ka Mate. And, as has already been said, most New Zealanders are happy for people to advance on the haka. Even Buck Shelford, the man to credit for the way in which we do the haka, praised Willie Anderson for accepting the challenge all those years ago.

France probably do deserve to be fined though. The rule is there for a reason (to stop violence) and they would have known that advancing on the haka causes a fine. To them it may have still be worth it.

One other thing I question is the notion that the haka gives us an advantage. Does it really? Many people think it is detrimental. You have to divert training time to the haka and away from rugby.
Nah, it's silly that France are fined. Prevent violence? Please. Most people don't understand the lyrics and if they did, you can't deny that it is a challenge or can be interpreted by the opposition as such. People respond to the body language which is anything but friendly and it is just embarrasing for the IRB to try and 'contain' teams IMO. I mean is what France did 'disrespecttful'? It wasn't in my view and it just perfectly set the scene for a gruelling final.

Z

Zapphod

Academy Player

Oct 25, 2011

#36

stormer2010 said:
Nah, it's silly that France are fined. Prevent violence? Please. Most people don't understand the lyrics and if they did, you can't deny that it is a challenge or can be interpreted by the opposition as such. People respond to the body language which is anything but friendly and it is just embarrasing for the IRB to try and 'contain' teams IMO. I mean is what France did 'disrespecttful'? It wasn't in my view and it just perfectly set the scene for a gruelling final.

I think the problem is finding a spot to draw the line, it seems the IRB has come up with a rule that severely restricts any response to these things which is an over kill but conversely I would not like to see the rules so relaxed as to allow teams to disrupt these traditions.

The rules need to allow teams to respond in a way appropriate to their own customs short of coming into contact with the performance other wise we will have the Scots charging around with claymores and the Russians invading the pitch in T-90s.

Last edited: Oct 25, 2011

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator

TRF Legend

Oct 25, 2011

#37

Zapphod said:
I think the problem is finding a spot to draw the line, it seems the IRB has come up with a rule that severely restricts any response to these things which is an over kill but conversely I would not like to see the rules so relaxed as to allow teams to disrupt these traditions.

The rules need to allow teams to respond in a way appropriate to their own customs short of coming into contact with the performance other wise we will have the Scots charging around with claymores and the Russians invading the pitch in T-90s.

I don't think there needs to be any rules at all. Do you really have so little faith in how other teams might react? If some team does step over the line of what would be considered respectful then they'll be lambasted for it and that will be that and we'll move on as we have in the past. The IRB are a bunch of bloody faschists.

Challenge layed down and challenge accepted. Mutual respect in the spirit of sportmanship. Telling one team they aren't allowed this or that is not being mutually respectful. If the responding team acts disrespectfully then let them take the lambasting on the chin from supporters and the media and apologize. Bringing rules and regulations to govern something like this situation is just very sad IMO.

Last edited: Oct 25, 2011

Z

Zapphod

Academy Player

Oct 25, 2011

#38

Well sadly we will disagree on this one then.

I don't care if the opposition is respectful or not I am more than happy if rather than watch a challenge the opposition wandered off for a team talk, threw a party under their own posts or what ever floats their boat but allowing them to disrupt these things will do nothing for the atmosphere of the ensuing game.

(I wont call it a haka as almost all if not all Pacific teams have their own challenge)

W

William18

First XV

Oct 25, 2011

#39

stormer2010 said:
Nah, it's silly that France are fined. Prevent violence? Please. Most people don't understand the lyrics and if they did, you can't deny that it is a challenge or can be interpreted by the opposition as such. People respond to the body language which is anything but friendly and it is just embarrasing for the IRB to try and 'contain' teams IMO. I mean is what France did 'disrespecttful'? It wasn't in my view and it just perfectly set the scene for a gruelling final.

I don't blame people for not knowing or understanding the lyrics but it is at best presumptuous to assume that a haka depicts violence when it doesn't. I mean "It's my time! It's my moment!" sounds like a quote from Eminem's Lose Yourself not from a war dance. What France did is certainly not disrespectful. Besides, if you do something disrespectful you are just being disrespectful. You can't find someone for being rude, ignorant or disrespectful IMO. I still think that there should be rules around it though, a team should not be able to do what they want. Maybe the current rules aren't correct. For instance perhaps either team should be able to advance up to halfway? I don't know. Besides, to not fine France would be unfair and inconsistent. The Wallaroos were fined for advancing on the haka last year. If the IRB lets France off aren't they just bowing to public pressure? They can't fine France because they are a men's team and because the spotlight was on the match but can fine a women's team with no outcry? Personally, I liked the team (was it Australia?) who once chose to ignore the haka by doing rugby drills. That was a fantastic response. I think that might have been Campese in 91?

Only 16.3% of New Zealanders believe that France should be fined: http://www.stuff.co.nz/lightbox/spo...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=500&width=680

ranger

First XV

Oct 25, 2011

#40

Christ. The haka can lead to fights, thats just whats up (Ask Tipoki). People can respond in any way that they want but it was decided years ago that the best way to prevent dust-ups during these heated moments was to keep both sides in their respective corners and out of punching radius. Both teams behind their 10 metre line, thats the best way to handle it.

If the opposition want to respond by staring angrily or with their own haka, with a song, with a breakdance routine, anything, they can do that. The only rule is that they do whatever they want to do behind the line. They can even walk off or not watch if they want.

Its hard to explain the atmosphere that arises when a haka battle gets too close, its sort of like that uncomfortably tense moment when you can see a fight on the cards and all it would take is for a slight twitch and all hell will start breaking loose.

This is why the rule is there. One wrong move away from carnage, and thats only schoolboys.

Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017