Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2015' started by valley commando, Jan 12, 2016.
2009 SA and the Woodward tour in 2005 were the couple of tours I was referring too.
Well what was wrong with 2009?
What bust ups between the Welsh /
And Bodgate as you call it was a tough decision that had to be made and you may remember Bod took it well realising his omission was for the greater good of the team, a decision a weaker would not have had the balls to make and deep down Bod must have realised that ultimately it was the correct decision, Johny Fox was the better player on form leading up to that 3rd and deciding test, 41 -16 the most points ever in a Lions test against a tier 1 Nation.
Both inside and outside of Wales you get idiots having a pop at Gatland, but in the real world facts and figures prove his detractors wrong on every front, he is without date the best coach Wales have ever had and is one of the 3 greatest ever Lions coaches, together with Geech and the incomparable Carwyn James.
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I could be wrong but seem to remember reports of the midweek sides not feeling as much a part of the squad and more akin to the reserve side. Gatland mixed and matched his midweek side giving everyone the feeling of being part of the whole thing.
Think you have that the wrong way round
The Lions tour is possible it just needs a much bigger squad and basically 2 sets of coaches. Everyone is going to have to be clear on who is in the reserves and who is in the main team from the start. 6 Weeks in New Zealand along with some warm up game before hand isn't going to be much fun to be honest.
The tour finishes in the first week of July, and the season starts for the French teams in the second week of August, basically 7 weeks later, if you factor in pre-season training then basically those players won't have an off season, no wonder really that so many of the France based Welsh lads want to come home!
3 June (sat) - Provincial union team (Toll Stadium, Whangarei)
7 June (wed) - Blues (Eden Park, Auckland)
10 June (sat) - Crusaders (AMI Stadium, Christchurch)
13 June (tue) - Highlanders (Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin)
17 June - Maori (sat) (International Stadium, Rotorua)
20 (tue) June - Chiefs (Waikato Stadium, Hamilton)
24 June (sat) - New Zealand (First Test, Eden Park, Auckland)
27 June (tue) - Hurricanes (Westpac Stadium, Wellington)
1 July (sat) - New Zealand (Second Test, Westpac Stadium, Wellington)
8 July (sat) - New Zealand (Third Test, Eden Park, Auckland).
That's just what you don't want, where is the sense in that. Gatland had changed things for the better and players were not prejudged on day 1, all thats going to happen with your proposition is that half the squad are ****** off on day 1, that's what woodward did and ended up with a disaffected squad whilst ruining his reputation as a coach.
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Don't think so.
Id say Farrell is probably 1 of most likely to go as Defense coach. With Schmidt or Gatland.
Thats not quite true though. Given the short amount of time Lions teams have to prepare and the calibre of teams in NZ Woodward thought the best option was pick his best 22 (as it was back then) before leaving and have a seperate 22 playing the Midweek games and providing support to the first 22. Geech was selected to run the midweek team and they remained unbeaten thoughout the tour, had a good team spirit and played some very good rugby with Cusiter and Hodgson making a very good half back pairing. Where Woodward fell down was his inital selection of his "best" 22 and pointless distractions such as that god awful power of 4 anthem and employing that horrible little man Alister campbell to deal with the press. The only real disaffection came from players like Gavin Henson who could pick a fight in an empty room.
The idea was a sound one for touring NZ but Woodwards execution was wrong.
Alister Darling yes what a tosser, I'd erased him from my memory, I still think you should have a mix and match attitude to the squad in the 1st couple of weeks , I remember a fair few of the players that played in the tests played several mid week games, Halfpenny for instance.
As for that tortured soul Henson we were lead to believe (true or not) that Woodward had told him he would get a test spot and then overlooked him without explanation for me Woodward was responsible for screwing up Hensons career, he was never quite the same after that tour, some players need a kick up the arse and others need an arm around the shoulder, Henson being the latter, Woodward did not possess much in the way of man management as he only had one way of dealing with things and for me was lucky when England won the WC as the real leaders and decision makers were on the pitch.
THe only person to screw up Gavin Hensons career was Gavin Henson. Didnt he have to apologise to the whole Welsh squad once for writting things about them? Blokes a clown, good rugby player for a short time but a still a clown.
Big harsh on the former Chancellor who wasn't on tour! Alastair Campbell on the other hand....
Agree with Tallshort on Henson.
Ha! well spotted editting now
Wasn't the real problem in 2005 the fact we were playing New Zealand back when they usually peaked between world cups (rather than just being the best all the time now)? Whereas Gatland got to play one of the worst Australia sides in living memory?
Yes thats true but if we are honest the 1997 South African team that lost to the Lions wasnt the best either.
Well the Lions are already hampered by team ethos anyway. They are only really likely to beat a team in trouble, established international sides have years of experience this is over putting a bunch of players together from four separate playing nations and hoping they'll win in the space of just over a few months.
Yes in fact you could probably call Henson an uneducated clown, who we should possibly make allowances for, however with Woodward you have an over educated clown who we should make zero allowances for.
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Credit where credit is due you can only play the side in front of you, trouble is there are plenty of idiots who like to have a pop at Gatland wherever he coaches, it happened when he was at Wasps, the fact is he is the best NH coach and when he gets the Lions job he will pick the best available squad and ultimately will build the best available Test side, just like he did last time. The bitter and twisted amongst us will always argue not enough players from their own country are picked.
Don't think anyone doubts Gatland is a good coach and given how poor the NH teams performed in the WC he could have a claim to be the best coach in the NH but given how far behind we are compared to the top 3 or even 4 SH sides it's not something we should be banging a drum to loudly about. In the last 4 years the 4 home nations record against SA, Australia and NZ is appalling so let's not get carried away because the lions beat a crap Aussie side a few years ago. Yes Gatland might be daft enough to take the lions job again this time but given that he is a kiwi trying to beat other kiwis kind of sums up how poor we are in terms of playing and coaching ability up here.
What rubbish, if Henson let his entire career be destroyed because he missed out on a Lions game then he didn't deserve the spot in the first place. Professional players get on with it and try to improve if things go wrong. If Henson sulked, that's his fault. Also if anyone needed taking down a peg or 2, it was Henson, the guy was so far up his own arse it was unbelievable, helped in no part by the Welsh claiming he was the best centre in the world.
Henson also managed to slag off the entire Welsh team in his book and got knocked out before even playing once at Bath. The guy had a serious attitude problem and that is what destroyed his career, he ****** off everyone around him.
Best news that could possibly come from this years championship!
Been honest don't think this means anything. If he got the gig IRFU wouldn't stand in the way as they benefit too. I'm sure Schmidt has his future planned to some extent and if he wanted the Lions and then to return to NZ the IRFU would allow it.
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