Georgia pushing for 6 Nations spot

[Tony Manx]

I'd hate to see any of the old 5 nations relegated at any point in the future. It's not the rugby it's the fans and the history, there is no way you can convince any British fan that Georgia would be a better game than Scotland. Italy were added to cover the free weekend, but there is no way there will be any allowance of relegation at any point. Georgia might be better off doing something with local teams around their area to be honest. I can't see expansion either the Aviva Premiership teams and Top 14 would never allow it.

I'm more in favor of a European Cup to run alongside the Lions tours. 4 pools of 4 teams like the first world cup, the 6 nations teams and the next best 10 euro teams.

I would go for that suggestion other than the need for rest periods being destroyed! Just cannot see it with various clubs feeling that even the Lions tour being now outdated in the professional era?

 

[chippieolamus]

i think the idea that someone floated about the second teams playing in the ENC is a great idea. The saxons/wolfhounds are actually pretty strong teams, and would be good matches for the likes of Georgia or Romania, plus it helps give international gamete to the developing players from the tier 1 nations. Once Georgia/Romania show significant improvement, reconsider if they should be allowed into the 6N. Seems mutually beneficial to me.

 

[RichardRheeder]

As a short term solution, I can't see expansion of the six bastions being possible at the moment. What I would like to see though, is a test match between Italy and Georgia, I think that would give us an idea of their current strength.

What I would suggest, and I think it has been mentioned before maybe, is how about a Euro Rugby tournament being run in between world cups (ie. during the European summer when the Lions are playing), we could have England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland (minus their Lions), excluding invite Italy and France for logistical reasons as they'd be touring he Southern Hemisphere as well at that time), and the next best 4 European Nations Cup teams (ie. Georgia, Romania, Russia, Spain?). Having 2 pools of 4, followed by a single round of playoff games to determine position.

it would give your Tier 2 teams valuable exposure against six nation opposition, while the home unions could use some of the available spots left by Lions players to blood new talent? And it can all be completed within 4 rounds..

 

[Jaguares]

Yeah, after the 54 points they received versus the Pumas. They deserve a spot

 

[rob39]

Yeah, after the 54 points they received versus the Pumas. They deserve a spot

Georgia really didn't take Union seriously until the 1990's and only became a force when France and Italy left the Euro nations cup in the early 2000's, so they have made great progress in such a short time. Argentina have made great steps forward and look an impressive outfit especially since they entered the championship in 2012 though they had made great improvements in the last 15 years. So overtime and with support from the IRB their is no reason they could not (Romania included) enter the 6 nations. All this will not happen overnight but If progress continues at the next RWC then certainly in the next 6 years I can see some kind of movement in the 6 nations.
So considering they are part time and only had 3 months to prepare for the world cup Losing by 54 points to a well drilled,decent professional outfit who play top level Rugby ain't bad

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Seems like there is pressure coming down on the six nations to let in Georgia and Romania.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/26/six-nations-georgia-romania

 

[ncurd]

Seems like there is pressure coming down on the six nations to let in Georgia and Romania.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/26/six-nations-georgia-romania

The guy is Georgian though....so heavily vested interest which the article missed out.

TBH we don't want another Italy competitive games at the bottom of the table won't help those at the top. 7 games without home/away will be too many. Some form of promotion/relegation is the only way to go.



Plus everyone forgets Argentina had to post a 3rd place finish in a RWC and beat Tier 1 sides with semi-regularity before they were admited to the tri-nations. Neither of these sides have come close to accomplishing that.

 

[psychic duck]

The guy is Georgian though....so heavily vested interest which the article missed out.

TBH we don't want another Italy competitive games at the bottom of the table won't help those at the top. 7 games without home/away will be too many. Some form of promotion/relegation is the only way to go.



Plus everyone forgets Argentina had to post a 3rd place finish in a RWC and beat Tier 1 sides with semi-regularity before they were admited to the tri-nations. Neither of these sides have come close to accomplishing that.

Firstly he's not Georgian. Secondly, nobody forgets that about Argentina either, and that you have to beat sides to get in is a damaging narrative that has led to entire generations of Italians or Argentines doing that and putting them in once they are old. And even then there is little comparison between those two nations as they played about 6 Tier 1 sides every year, including home games, thus vastly rising the odds of them picking up a win to sides that get a one off game if they are lucky.

 

[ncurd]

Firstly he's not Georgian. Secondly, nobody forgets that about Argentina either, and that you have to beat sides to get in is a damaging narrative that has led to entire generations of Italians or Argentines doing that and putting them in once they are old. And even then there is little comparison between those two nations as they played about 6 Tier 1 sides every year, including home games, thus vastly rising the odds of them picking up a win to sides that get a one off game if they are lucky.

Sorry Romanian...I think the point about a vested interest still stands.

The problem with Argentina/Italy is World Rugby (or the IRB as it was) didn't react to their much improved status with any impetus. It took 5 years from Argentina 3rd place finish to join the tri-nations that's the problem not asking them to be of a certain standard first.

We have another thread about trying to bridge the gap between NH and SH, letting Romania and Georgia into the 6 nations is hardly going to do that. We can't have it all.

 

[psychic duck]

Sorry Romanian...I think the point about a vested interest still stands.

The problem with Argentina/Italy is World Rugby (or the IRB as it was) didn't react to their much improved status with any impetus. It took 5 years from Argentina 3rd place finish to join the tri-nations that's the problem not asking them to be of a certain standard first.

We have another thread about trying to bridge the gap between NH and SH, letting Romania and Georgia into the 6 nations is hardly going to do that. We can't have it all.

They had to be 'a certain standard' for about 5 years, then wait another 5 years to get in. The idea of a set of blazers debating what this arbitrary standard exactly is, is part of the problem and why any change will be slow. I'd like to see an achievable transparent goal for progression set out that nations can aim for, ie an actual measurable achievement.

As an aside, the NH vs SH is mostly full of ********, and the other TRC sides are just riding the All Blacks dominance.

 

[ae15]

Rarely go on this forum but I saw what this guy said about Georgia and Romania and wanted to see what people on here were saying about it.

There's no doubt that these countries have got to be regularly playing against better opposition. Expanding the Six Nations would just cause chaos and ruin the tournament in my opinion. I think a much better way of sorting this out would be with promotion/relegation but not exactly as everyone is suggesting. Instead, the winner of the Six Nations B each year ought to play the wooden spoon winner each year in a two legged play off to see who plays in which league. That way you would be able to prove that the team who wins the Six Nations B is good enough to play in the Six Nations and at least make some games competitive. Also it means that if a good team has a stinker one year in the Six Nations for some reason like injuries, it won't necessarily cost them 2 or 3 years of development by having to play bad teams.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Seems like there is pressure coming down on the six nations to let in Georgia and Romania.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/26/six-nations-georgia-romania

That's good! Would love to see it.

 

[ncurd]

I'd like to see an achievable transparent goal for progression set out that nations can aim for, ie an actual measurable achievement.

Absolutely can't disagree with you there neither side has done enough to get permanent inclusion to the 6 nations but they should have tangible goals and means to obtain those goals set out before them. At the moment it's just a closed shop.

In Argentina's case I think most thought they reached an accepted standard early to mid-2000's, 2007 just confirmed that. We don't want to see anything like that happen to Romania or Georgia but in equal measure we don't want them to join and dilute to competition, Scotland's success at the world cup aside we already have two teams that have been hangers on in the 6 nations as it is.

ae15 I'm happy with that being a method of promotion relegation but both sides need regular games against Tier 1 opposition in addition to that. Otherwise we'll probably just get a yo-yo effect.

 

[Mattybuck]

I don't see it as feasible to increase number of teams, I.e. 7N or 8N.

It would lead to players being away from their clubs, who pay their wages for too long. At the end of the day clubs need success too.

I believe only option is for a promotion and relegation style system. I'd be brutal and introduce relegation first, taking 6N back to being 5N. So bottom of 6N would be relegated to play in the 6N B.

I like the idea of Saxons and wolfhounds (not eligible or promotion) competing against George, Romania, team relegated from 6N as well as other worthy teams, who are willing to invest.

There must be some level of investment by the teams involved in the 2nd Tier competition, but Aldo part funded by lucrative 5N.

Once both leagues established, a one up one down relegation system could be adopted, maybe using a play off game in order to ensure that the team coming up are in a position to compete.

The risk of relegation would be higher incentives to win at bottom as well as the top. Teams in 2nd tier play better quality opposition and get a chance at competing in the new 5N.

I don't think we can protect Scotland, who would be the obvious team to struggle, but I do believe that even they would benefit in the long term.

 

[dragos03]

The president of the Romanian Rugby Union, Harry Dumitras, said in an interview today that an 8-Nations tournament is unlikely due to the conservative nature of the Home Unions but think it's great that this topic is now considered in the mainstream press. There is hope for the future.

Starting next year, he said one option being considered is for European Tier 1 nations to play a test in Romania and Georgia in early June, as a warm-up before their SH tours.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Starting next year, he said one option being considered is for European Tier 1 nations to play a test in Romania and Georgia in early June, as a warm-up before their SH tours.

This is by far the best way forward, IMO... and has been for the past few years.

The "test" that England play vs the Barbarians is pretty much unjustifiable given the lack of tests for T2 nations.

 

[RedruthRFC]

The justification seems clear to me, it's the day after the AP final, players from 10/12 AP clubs are sat around twiddling their thumbs and it puts about 50k bums on seats. I could see the merit in playing either Romania or Georgia instead, but wouldn't at least some of their players still be committed to club rugby at the time?

 

[Mattybuck]

Probably a better idea, simple to get arranged.

 

[psychic duck]

The president of the Romanian Rugby Union, Harry Dumitras, said in an interview today that an 8-Nations tournament is unlikely due to the conservative nature of the Home Unions but think it's great that this topic is now considered in the mainstream press. There is hope for the future.

Starting next year, he said one option being considered is for European Tier 1 nations to play a test in Romania and Georgia in early June, as a warm-up before their SH tours.

Romania and Georgia never has their best players for June tests.

 

[Da Grappla]

A Seven Nations with promotion and relegation makes sense

Every time I've seen Georgia in Spain, they seem so superior not only to Spain, but to every team else involved in the ENC. Even when they set up a watered down team on the field.

Sport is about the olympic ideal, citius altius fortius

It doesn't make sense to keep Georgia from facing the rich guys just because they are rich. Remind to me the times when black guys were removed from disputing boxing world ***les

Do we want rugby as a sport to grow? We all do. That said, we cannot expect to make it grow by keeping outdated tournaments as private clubs. Italy was added. Italian flavour was added. I particularly enjoyed how they defeated France twice and how were they so close to give Ireland a lost match as a gift.

Only thing that is keeping Georgia from joining in, is at this time, some NH teams were so lucky that didn't fall in the same group this RWC.

Had been Italy instead of Tonga...