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How would Centralised Contracts work in the AP?

Tigs Man

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TBH part of me England have a good enough depth coming up to not need much of a change in club rugby in terms of system.

I feel maybe a change in scoring might work i.e 2 point penalty, 6 points try 1 point Conversion might help with encouraging more skill at AP level. But end of the day it is a bout the clubs philosophy Mauger is changing that @ Leicester, Ford has done so @ Bath.
 

Tallshort

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TBH part of me England have a good enough depth coming up to not need much of a change in club rugby in terms of system.

I feel maybe a change in scoring might work i.e 2 point penalty, 6 points try 1 point Conversion might help with encouraging more skill at AP level. But end of the day it is a bout the clubs philosophy Mauger is changing that @ Leicester, Ford has done so @ Bath.

Lets not get carried away Tigs, as much as I enjoyed the Stade game I want to see how we are playing come March April before I believe the new massia has arrived.
 

Tigs Man

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Lets not get carried away Tigs, as much as I enjoyed the Stade game I want to see how we are playing come March April before I believe the new massia has arrived.

Hence the changing not changed.

The fact is though having watch every game pretty much this preseason and season there has been a massive difference in attitude to playing.

Bar one game against Exeter where we fielded a much weakened team.

Just have to hear the comments coming from the players to see the difference already.

Jut lacking that clinical final play.
 

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TBH part of me England have a good enough depth coming up to not need much of a change in club rugby in terms of system.

I feel maybe a change in scoring might work i.e 2 point penalty, 6 points try 1 point Conversion might help with encouraging more skill at AP level. But end of the day it is a bout the clubs philosophy Mauger is changing that @ Leicester, Ford has done so @ Bath.

A change in philosophy could be huge and would be more beneficial than complete control of players; there's no point honing your players into magnificent engines of all-round destruction and then handing them over for most of the season to a goon who just wants them to run into as many brick walls as possible. Which goes both ways really; clubs don't want to let go of highly skilled highly motivated men and get back the bad and sad.

A change in philosophy in terms of working together to do what's best for the players would also probably be better than complete control of players too. Ideally we'd reduce players' gametime; the two ways of doing that are either the union gets a lot of control and starts removing players from a large swathe of the domestic season, or we reduce the season's length.

I would like the England team to have stronger control over England players. But it is nothing if you're not controlling excellent players to begin with.
 

Mattybuck

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The only way I can see central contracts introduced would be more of a compensation/reward scheme.

Players identified and RFU may contribution to their club salary, taking into account their time away with England.

I'd also pay the club that found and developed the player.

Watson for example... Some money to LI and some to Bath.

Get PRL to minus the salary paid by England from the clubs overall wage bill and give them wiggle room inside the salary cap.

Would then benefit clubs to bring on young English players and not look abroad...
 

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The only way I can see central contracts introduced would be more of a compensation/reward scheme.

Players identified and RFU may contribution to their club salary, taking into account their time away with England.

I'd also pay the club that found and developed the player.

Watson for example... Some money to LI and some to Bath.

Get PRL to minus the salary paid by England from the clubs overall wage bill and give them wiggle room inside the salary cap.

Would then benefit clubs to bring on young English players and not look abroad...
That's how it should work but Rob Andrew negotiated the EPS with the PRL who decided to split the money evenly between the clubs irrespective of how many England players they produce, and miss during test windows.

Andrew negotiated a poor deal.
 

Which Tyler

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I don't think you can blame RA for PRL reneging on the deal (or fudging around it and finding ways to smooth the payments from other areas; to be more precise)
 

Colombia

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I don't think you can blame RA for PRL reneging on the deal (or fudging around it and finding ways to smooth the payments from other areas; to be more precise)
Why not? It's his responsibility to ensure the terms of the agreement are water-tight. If he was too trusting then he's a damn fool, and incompetent to boot (no pun).
 

Which Tyler

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But the terms of the deal were water-tight.
That's why PRL had to use different money to fudge the deal with.

Just how much influence do you think RA had over PRL's distribution of TV / Sponsorship money that has nothing whatsoever to do with the RFU and goes straight into the PRL central pot?
 

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Lets not get carried away Tigs, as much as I enjoyed the Stade game I want to see how we are playing come March April before I believe the new massia has arrived.

What is a massia?
 

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A boring **** that goes around correcting people's spelling on forums.

What? I wasn't doing anything of the sort - I punctuated my question with no exclamation marks, smilies or anything that might hint at sarcasm or mockery. I assumed a "massia" to be some sort of British slang, so I innocently asked. Sorry if things are lost in translation. English is my second language so my vocabulary might be somewhat lacking.
 
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jonny24

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What? I wasn't doing anything of the sort - I punctuated my question with no exclamation marks, smilies or anything that might hint at sarcasm or mockery. I assumed a "massia" to be some sort of British slang, so I innocently asked. Sorry if things are lost in translation. English is my second language so my vocabulary might be somewhat lacking.

He meant Messiah, ie saviour.
 

Tallshort

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And hes a very naughty boy
 

Colombia

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But the terms of the deal were water-tight.
That's why PRL had to use different money to fudge the deal with.

Just how much influence do you think RA had over PRL's distribution of TV / Sponsorship money that has nothing whatsoever to do with the RFU and goes straight into the PRL central pot?
They clearly weren't, he should've got the requisite assurances in writing that there would be no funny business, no sneaky ways around terms, contracts can be written to that end. He screwed up, paid a bunch of RFU cash while English rugby got worse. He signed a contract for no appreciable benefit.
 

Which Tyler

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How?
What right do the RFU have to control how money that is nothing to do with them is spent?

If I give you £30 for some reason, do I have the right to demand that you never, ever, ever gives any money at all to someone else; even though you already do and that money doesn't come out of the £30 I just gave you? how could that possibly work?
 

smartcooky

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That's how it should work but Rob Andrew negotiated the EPS with the PRL who decided to split the money evenly between the clubs irrespective of how many England players they produce, and miss during test windows.

Andrew negotiated a poor deal.

He certainly did.

Here are few suggestions as to how I think a partial central contracting system might work

• All members of the England Elite Player Squad (EPS) have their full Club rugby wages paid directly by the RFU.
• All members of the current (at the time) England Saxons Squad (ESS) have a portion (50%?) of their Club rugby wages paid directly by the RFU
• The RFU would be handed over limited image rights of those players, relating only to images used directly to promote promote the RFU or WR
• The RFU would have a say in the management of EPS and ESS players, including the position they play, the amount of game time they play, and medical treatment.
• The RFU is responsible for insuring the EPS and ESS players during the whole time that are under RFU control
• If the player is injured, the RFU picks up the tab for treatment and recovery costs

How this benefits the Clubs
• Those players and their wages would not be counted as part of the Salary cap.
• A lower wage bill and players not included in their salary cap means the Club will have more money to spend on other players
• Instead of spreading the payments over all clubs, such a system incentivises Clubs to produce good quality players for England
 

Tallshort

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He certainly did.

Here are few suggestions as to how I think a partial central contracting system might work

• All members of the England Elite Player Squad (EPS) have their full Club rugby wages paid directly by the RFU.
• All members of the current (at the time) England Saxons Squad (ESS) have a portion (50%?) of their Club rugby wages paid directly by the RFU
• The RFU would be handed over limited image rights of those players, relating only to images used directly to promote promote the RFU or WR
• The RFU would have a say in the management of EPS and ESS players, including the position they play, the amount of game time they play, and medical treatment.
• The RFU is responsible for insuring the EPS and ESS players during the whole time that are under RFU control
• If the player is injured, the RFU picks up the tab for treatment and recovery costs

How this benefits the Clubs
• Those players and their wages would not be counted as part of the Salary cap.
• A lower wage bill and players not included in their salary cap means the Club will have more money to spend on other players
• Instead of spreading the payments over all clubs, such a system incentivises Clubs to produce good quality players for England

Oh God! I agree with smart cooky on something.

All great on paper, suppose the big question must be: is there anyone in the rfu with the intelligence and force of will to push this though?
 

TRF_nickdnz

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He certainly did.

Here are few suggestions as to how I think a partial central contracting system might work

• All members of the England Elite Player Squad (EPS) have their full Club rugby wages paid directly by the RFU.
• All members of the current (at the time) England Saxons Squad (ESS) have a portion (50%?) of their Club rugby wages paid directly by the RFU
• The RFU would be handed over limited image rights of those players, relating only to images used directly to promote promote the RFU or WR
• The RFU would have a say in the management of EPS and ESS players, including the position they play, the amount of game time they play, and medical treatment.
• The RFU is responsible for insuring the EPS and ESS players during the whole time that are under RFU control
• If the player is injured, the RFU picks up the tab for treatment and recovery costs

How this benefits the Clubs
Those players and their wages would not be counted as part of the Salary cap.
• A lower wage bill and players not included in their salary cap means the Club will have more money to spend on other players

• Instead of spreading the payments over all clubs, such a system incentivises Clubs to produce good quality players for England

A few questions on this:

1. A player is dropped from the EPS/ESS. Clubs suddenly become in breach of the salary cap? If as an example, Manu Tuilagi's market value is around 500K - but is dropped by the EPS - clubs would have to start offloading players.
2. If I'm a club like Worcester (as an example) - and I develop a world class player. I sign him to the salary that I think reflects his importance to the team. Now if he is fully contracted to the RFU upon national selection (and they pay his full salary no matter where he plays) how does Worcester compete to retain him?
3. Who negotiates on players salaries? If it's the clubs - surely they could go as high as they want and know the RFU would foot the bill, if it's RFU the clubs would have to foot the bill should players not make the team.
 
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