Ireland Squad

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 27 2009, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That is a f***ing disgrace. POC would captain any other 6N team, It's ridiculous that he isn't captain. :angry:[/b]

it's been proven before that he's not up to the job

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 27 2009, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That is a f***ing disgrace. POC would captain any other 6N team, It's ridiculous that he isn't captain. :angry:[/b]

Nahh I wouldnt go that far. POC was an option NOT a shoe in. Personally I would have liked to see POC given a shot, more as a statement for the future, but I dont think it'll have any real impact.

Edit: Yeah, I remember that France game when O'Connell had too quiet a game and we were all wishing O'Driscoll had played. Only two years ago, and while O'Connel has gotten used to the role with Munster, no sense dumping it all on him so quickly.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jan 27 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 27 2009, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a f***ing disgrace. POC would captain any other 6N team, It's ridiculous that he isn't captain. :angry:[/b]

Nahh I wouldnt go that far. POC was an option NOT a shoe in. Personally I would have liked to see POC given a shot, more as a statement for the future, but I dont think it'll have any real impact.

Edit: Yeah, I remember that France game when O'Connell had too quiet a game and we were all wishing O'Driscoll had played. Only two years ago, and while O'Connel has gotten used to the role with Munster, no sense dumping it all on him so quickly.
[/b][/quote]

thing is though it's not a question of dumping it on him quickly, he's been involved in the international setup for 7 years, has 2 world cups and a Lions tour under his belt, he should be Ireland captain at this stage but there's genuine doubts about his captaincy.

 

[MunsterMan]

There were genuine doubts about his captaincy two years ago when he was just given the job, he has learnt a huge amount since then. He has lead his team to a Heineken Cup and has been consistently the standout player in Heineken Cup this year.

Brian O'Driscoll was a huge loss for the France game, for 3 reasons IMO, ranked in order of importance

1-He was replaced by Shane Fecking Horgan, Inexperienced at Centre and probably the worst 12 to play for Ireland in recent memory.
2- BOD was in terrific form in the 2007 6N and has not reproduced anything near that form since
3- Paul O'Connell was at the time an inexperienced captain and It seemed like he let the occasion get to him.

 

[shazbooger]

I'll let you two duke this one out as I agree with both of you.

I dont think its that big a debating point. Kidney seems to have made it clear that O'Connell has a leadership role on the pitch and O'Driscoll is not a bad captain to have. Its a win-win for us if you ask me.

 

[stevemagoo]

In The team that we have now - The "Captain" ***le is merely someone to call the coin toss, introduce dignitaries to the team, and talk to the ref. There are a lot of leaders in the team including O'Gara and obviously O'Connell, but Best too....Don't think it'll make much of a difference.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 27 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

There were genuine doubts about his captaincy two years ago when he was just given the job, he has learnt a huge amount since then. He has lead his team to a Heineken Cup and has been consistently the standout player in Heineken Cup this year.

Brian O'Driscoll was a huge loss for the France game, for 3 reasons IMO, ranked in order of importance

1-He was replaced by Shane Fecking Horgan, Inexperienced at Centre and probably the worst 12 to play for Ireland in recent memory.
2- BOD was in terrific form in the 2007 6N and has not reproduced anything near that form since
3- Paul O'Connell was at the time an inexperienced captain and It seemed like he let the occasion get to him.[/b]

I'll accept that he's learnt a fair bit being Munster captain but lets remember it was O'Gara who was skipper for the majority of last season. His example against Clermont this year was hardly the behaviour of a captain and he's shown time and time again for me that he doesn't have the temperament to be an international captain. It's all well and good doing it at provincial level but it's a step up again to the international arena

 

[MunsterMan]

That's funny, because I thought showing restraint instead of immediately knocking Cudmore's head off showed responsibility. He let Cudmore get 3-4 punches in before retaliating where as the POC of previous seasons would have lost the rag.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 27 2009, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That's funny, because I thought showing restraint instead of immediately knocking Cudmore's head off showed responsibility. He let Cudmore get 3-4 punches in before retaliating where as the POC of previous seasons would have lost the rag.[/b]

granted but it's still not the type of incident you need your captain to be getting involved in.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I thought O'Connell would get the captaincy but I've no problem with O'Driscoll retaining the role. His win percantage as captain is quite high and he's done nothing to dictate that he's not up to the task.

 

[JohnBE]

O'Connell has a better personality for it

I never thought bod was a good captain.


and I think it's finally O'Connell's chance

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Jan 27 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

O'Connell has a better personality for it

I never thought bod was a good captain.


and I think it's finally O'Connell's chance[/b]

he had a chance and it cost us a grand slam cause he went walkabout.

 

[JohnBE]

O'Connell is probably the best player on the irish team

He's inspirational and I garuntee you he will be captain

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Jan 27 2009, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

O'Connell is probably the best player on the irish team

He's inspirational and I garuntee you he will be captain[/b]

but not just yet, no doubt he's one of the best players but when it comes down to it that doesn't necessarily equate to a good captain.

 

[JohnBE]

but i think he's an excellent captain.. and I think the irish team has lacked "fire".. and he brings that..


To be fair to O'Gara, I agree with what he said about lads not buying into the jersey.. but O'Connell does and I think he's a natural born leader

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Jan 27 2009, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

but i think he's an excellent captain.. and I think the irish team has lacked "fire".. and he brings that..


To be fair to O'Gara, I agree with what he said about lads not buying into the jersey.. but O'Connell does and I think he's a natural born leader[/b]

well O'Gara isn't always gonna be there to hold his hand in terms of the big decisions so for me he's not a long term option as captain, Best is though.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jan 27 2009, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

well O'Gara isn't always gonna be there to hold his hand in terms of the big decisions so for me he's not a long term option as captain, Best is though.[/b]

I'll go a step further than Best - David Pollock will be the long term captain. O'Driscoll and O'Connell will hold down the captaincy for the next three years before Pollock assumes the role and holds it for the following 7 or 8 years. Best would be a very capable captain too.

 

[An Tarbh]

the problem with Best is that he's not guaranteed a start, even though he deserves it on current form.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jan 27 2009, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

the problem with Best is that he's not guaranteed a start, even though he deserves it on current form.[/b]

Flanerey has been awesome the last two weekends.And only one iffy throw in the entre of the Mountabon match.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Jan 27 2009, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

the problem with Best is that he's not guaranteed a start, even though he deserves it on current form.[/b]

I'm a big fan of Rory Best too. He's not a spectacular player but he's competent in all areas. Jerry Flannery is a better player on his day but he blows hot and cold. Best is consistently good.