is englands success papering over the cracks?

[loratadine]

article on the bbc.co.uk



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...ish/7046458.stm





i had this feeling mind in the back of my mind. what does everyone else think?

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Everyone, bar those people who have emerged from the darkness to ride the England bandwagon once again, can see that in the long term nothing has been solved.

The moment we get a coach willing to rewarded caps to younger players with potential and those on form in the domestic leagues is the moment things will start to improve.

In an ideal world, no sentiment would be shown to those players who have shown passion in this tournament. It's all very well suddenly finding a bit of form at the right time, but the fact remains that many simply aren't up to international level anymore.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

No-one is saying this England team is a finished article...the players themselves have admitted they are shocked they've come this far.

This world cup, whether we win or lose the final, can be used as a platform to put the past for years behind us.

I don't get a sense that we are getting carried away, the team can't be accused of believing it's own press 'cause we've not done any bigging ourselves up.

 

[stormmaster1]

This England team has done as much in the world cup as could be realistically be asked of them. Overall England are not as good as they could have been. Lots of people have spoken about all the issues like foreign players, season structure etc but you can't pin the blame on any of these untill the coach isn't clearly accountable. AR really messed up the England side's development after 2003. The influx of forign players may or may not be a problem for the national side, but there is no point talking about radical changes around the way the game is run in England untill the basic setup around the England side is sorted. If Ashton and co appear to be doing the right things, but England aren't going anywhere in the 6N/next Autumn then maybe you can blame the structure.

 

[36crazyfist]

No-one is saying this England team is a finished article...the players themselves have admitted they are shocked they've come this far.

This world cup, whether we win or lose the final, can be used as a platform to put the past for years behind us.

I don't get a sense that we are getting carried away, the team can't be accused of believing it's own press 'cause we've not done any bigging ourselves up.
[/b]

think everybody was shocked that they made it thus far.

just think that if they do/don't win the wc, that they should drastically look at ways to improve. 3 games can't cover 4 years roller coaster ride.

to be honest, i think one man saved the team from embarrassment, johnny wilkinson.

on the bright side, you're in the final. more than we can say about new zealand that played amazing rugby over the last 4 years...

 

[loratadine]

i know!! fair play what ever happens england should be very proud of what they done at this wc, cos they have stw as brian ashton wanted his men to do. But there is a big underlying problem in english rugby, and its got to be said that the raw talent that english rugby has isnt being developed as it should be, nd to the extent it should be.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

But Ashton is a realist and I think the squad are too...the feel good factor is back and so now they'll get on with the job in hand. We have a platform now that's all..........but there's an outside chance that platform will have a nice shiny gold trophy on it come Saturday night. Embarresed? I think our aim was to at least get out of the group and not get stomped by Australia, that's all most people were hoping for. You look at the way the Kiwis, Aussies and Irish were bigging themselves up beforehand that's when you end up with egg on your face.

In 2003 the team made themselves undroppable...there is nothing like with this team. Definitely not the backs division anyway. The rebuilding will continue after this world cup win or lose.

 

[Triniquint]

But Ashton is a realist and I think the squad are too...the feel good factor is back and so now they'll get on with the job in hand. We have a platform now that's all..........but there's an outside chance that platform will have a nice shiny gold trophy on it come Saturday night. Embarresed? I think our aim was to at least get out of the group and not get stomped by Australia, that's all most people were hoping for. You look at the way the Kiwis, Aussies and Irish were bigging themselves up beforehand that's when you end up with egg on your face.

In 2003 the team made themselves undroppable...there is nothing like with this team. Definitely not the backs division anyway. The rebuilding will continue after this world cup win or lose.
[/b]

Yes, I think you're right. With the Club v Country argument sorted, and the impetus of this world cup, along with being so bad since we won the last one, it should all coalesce into getting the youngsters in, and getting them the internationals and 6N under their belt and hopefully balance our forwards with a good set of backs such that once our forwards have won the ball, we can release the backs to attack.

Whatever happens after next weekend, if England just carry on as normal then something is seriously, seriously, wrong.

 

[Bullitt]

There is plenty of room for squad development in England. The current set of forwards in the squad are proberbly 50% full strengh, so when the likes of Vickery, Regan, Kay, Worsley, Dayglo, et al are finally dropped for Stevens, Hartley, Deacon, Haskell and Rees, the pack will really begin to move on.

When it comes to the back, we have some of the best young talent IN THE WORLD in England right now, unfortunately the RFU's nepotism has held them back for a long time. Now Andrew has started keeping his nose out and Ashton is pulling the strings, maybe we'll see the likes of Care, Gerethy, Clarke, Hipkiss, Cipriani and Abanamanamanamanamanmanamanamanamanamon start to shine on a national level. Then with the league converts coming across (who unlike Farrell, aren't utter cack) like Vinarolacola, Ashton and Myler who can be thrown into the mix, who knows what the future holds?

Above anything else though, the RFU need to trust the clubs to develop their players. You look after the Pennys etc.

 

[shtove]

Depressing - English fans being reasonable and realistic. They'll win this final with five drop goals, then go to NZ after four consecutive grand slams and win that one with five tries.

Still, at least lora is back.

 

[skateboarder]

Nobody can tell if the sudden success is just "papering over the cracks" yet. Nobody will know until the off season and, possibly, the 6 Nations.

If England play with such patriotism, passion and belief in every match though, they can beat anyone.

 

[Prestwick]

i know!! fair play what ever happens england should be very proud of what they done at this wc, cos they have stw as brian ashton wanted his men to do. But there is a big underlying problem in english rugby, and its got to be said that the raw talent that english rugby has isnt being developed as it should be, nd to the extent it should be. [/b]

 

[Lardinho]

its a fair point, despite knowing how to dig deep and front up when it counts, and having one of the best packs on the planet, England definitely need to work on unleashing their backs and playing with more fluidity when required. I have no problems England beating France or Australia by any means neccessary, but against a team like the USA, who are much improved, England really should have stuck at least 50 on them, if not a good bit more.

But I don't think they are papering over the cracks, you need a few years to create a good solid basis for a world cup team, Ashton hasn't had long and I think he has an excellent attitude, his coaching credentials are certainly up to standard. I just think to judge him fairly, they need to give him another 18 months in the job and look at bringing in a 3rd person like Martin Johnson to make sure Ashton has time to do what he does best. Keep Andrew as Director of Rugby, make Ashton the national coach and make Johnson the national manager. With this set up, I think England has enough talent in the premiership to get back to the top of the rankings.

In all, I think its a little early to talk about papering over the cracks, as he won't have a chance to fill those cracks in at the foundation until after the world cup, when he can come up with, along with others, structures to make sure Team England gets what is required to help them back to the top.

I don't think even the most fervant England supporter is stupid enough to think "England is back" in terms of sustained results and long term ranking, we are simply showing our teeth, digging in and making a bloody good fist of things, considering the poor cards we've had to play with. To get back where they were, England need at least 2 years of good results to come even close, that's after the world cup has ended.