Is Super Rugby economically sustainable?

[sigesige00]

I am watching Super Rugby games on TV, but I am surprised by the small crowd.
Is Super Rugby economically sustainable now? I think that this project is doomed.
There should be Oceanian, African and American Super Leagues, as well as European Super League.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So basically; "the format does not work but lets have more?"?

 

[William18]

In New Zealand Super Rugby is propped up by the international game.

 

[steblin]

In New Zealand Super Rugby is propped up by the international game.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/all-blacks/news/article.cfm?c_id=116&objectid=11248530

Article talking about exactly that, how the AB's effectively support the domestic and Super Rugby teams and how everything is geared towards the AB's. When you read that, there is SO much pressure on the AB's, they even talk about 'If we don't win the World Cup we may lose sponsors' etc.

The good thing from that article is that they do seem to understand that they do seem to understand things domestically need to improve. Gates need to go up and they understand their is serious rugby fatigue going on. As they put it, you can currently watch AB stars in action 9 months of the year, no wonder they can't keep that level of excitement up to draw fans.

I can honestly see things, maybe after the next RWC reaching a tipping point and big BIG changes happening. Especially if people become disillusioned with the new Super format.

 

[Da Grappla]

How expensive are tickets related to living standards? I also notice the poor Super 15 crowds, even in big games.

 

[steblin]

How expensive are tickets related to living standards? I also notice the poor Super 15 crowds, even in big games.

It's funny I hear alot of people complain about ticket prices, but they're really not that expensive, I chose to have a half (4 game) season pass at The Blues, just can't make it to every game with kids and childcare etc. I went for the cheap option which is a General Admission ticket (so mainly the end stands), 4 games, $69 (NZD). An 8 game general admission ticket is $129 (NZD).

For the upcoming game against the Sharks at North Harbour, tickets range from $20 to $55.

Couldn't really say how that compares to average cost of living.

 

[LittleGuy]

It's funny I hear alot of people complain about ticket prices, but they're really not that expensive, I chose to have a half (4 game) season pass at The Blues, just can't make it to every game with kids and childcare etc. I went for the cheap option which is a General Admission ticket (so mainly the end stands), 4 games, $69 (NZD). An 8 game general admission ticket is $129 (NZD).

For the upcoming game against the Sharks at North Harbour, tickets range from $20 to $55.

Couldn't really say how that compares to average cost of living.

Those are fairly cheap tickets by North American standards even when comparing average income levels etc.

 

[Da Grappla]

With those prices, I wouldn't miss a game. Soccer is way more expensive here and even tier 2 league gets better attendances than Super 15.

 

[steblin]

Yeah my reasons for not going are not money reasons, once the boys are old enough it'll be full season tickets all round, whether they like it or not ;-)

Another big factor for people though has to be the TV rights. With the staggered TV schedule you can watch all the games on the weekend without leaving your sofa and without having to chose between the games. I guess a lot of people think (for The Blues) 'Why would I go to a half full Eden Park when I already pay for Sky?'.

In the ITM Cup its even cheaper (obviously), got my season ticket for North Harbour (5 home games) for $50, and my eldest boy who was 4 got one for free. From this year his ticket will cost $20. They were tickets on the half way line, next to the players tunnel ... awesome view

 

[Shaggy]

The Blues Franchise area also has to compete with the NZ Warriors (Rugby League), and the Breakers (Basketball), so the sporting fan has more choice than in other parts of the country (although the Hurricanes have the Wellington Phoenix (soccer)).

If compare the wages/cost of living in NZ to the other Countries I've lived in, wages are low and cost of living is high (particularly housing, petrol etc), so choosing how I spent my surplus cash was a bit more of a consideration.

I think the problem (at Super Rugby level) is a combination of over supply of games, and also, not effectively changing the rugby watchers habits ... I know as a kid, we use to watch club rugby every Saturday (after we played ourselves) ... I think this develops a love for watching live matches, but I'm not sure that many even go out to watch their local club anymore.

 

[nzlizard]

I have kids, 5 & 8 and we have been a one income family for 8 years, my partner has only started working in the last few months once our youngest reached 5 and went to school. We chose to do that as we believed in raising our own kids over having lots of money.

My kids kinda like rugby, more the staying up late than the watching the games.

We haven't been able to afford to go to many games on one income, and when you see how empty the stadiums can be and then you look at the price of tickets you wonder why they persist to price them like they do. While they are not really expensive a lot of people we know with kids just can;t afford it, by the time you get tickets, a bit of food and a drink it can be quite a bit for a family of four.

Just my opinion but I believe they are slightly over priced.

A lot of people I know have also gone away from sky or 2-3 mates chip in for sky at 1 persons house and they all go there to watch the games. Cost of living is a factor.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Economically viable is a pretty loose term IMHO.

As long as the broadcasters and teams are making a profit and are happy with the financial situation this tournament brings to their needs, it will remain economically viable. Apart from the Highlanders a few seasons ago, no other team has struggled financially to such an extent that they needed a hand-out or bail-out, that I know of.

As for ticketing, surely that's every stadium's own choice. I don't think there's anything SANZAR can do to enforce stadiums to sell tickets at a certain fee.

If I were to take Loftus as an example, even though it sometimes look as though the stands are relatively empty, it doesn't mean that the aren't making a profit every match day. Loftus is surrounded by training fields, and on match day, those fields are filled to the brim with people. They convert the training fields into a massive beer camp and has a big screen with live performers entertaining the people from early in the morning. Some people just end up staying in the beer camp as they are either too drunk or just loving the vibe and doesn't want to go and sit in their seat. Loftus also has many beer stations at the back of the stadium, where people also end up seeing that they are not allowed to bring any alcohol onto the seating area.

Loftus also has a special section right behind the posts just for schools. If kids come in their school uniforms or tracksuits, entrance is free.

As for the ticket sales, I think Loftus' ticket prices are actually very cheap. To sit on the main stand under the roof on the bottom for a Super Rugby match would cost about R150. and that is for the more expensive seats.

 

[Da Grappla]

They could set a couple of fair arrangement; underage boys get into the stadium for free if an adult pays for his ticket on a one on one relation, whole family discounts, etc. Something a la Loftus heineken just posted above.

Let the average Joe stay seated with the belt fastened while he sees the whole bunch of games, but let's also fill the bleachers/stands/terraces with families for the love of the sport purposes.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Newlands also has seating from R50 to R150 which is dirt cheap adn I wouldn't want it cheaper- quite the opposite because I'd prefer less poorer people to attend the matches as they are the people- if any- who tend to end up spoiling the outing for others. Call me elitist if you like but I don't want to expose my little boy to the type of person who'd swear at, spit on and threaten physically any other person solely for wearing the local team's jersey (though i suspect they'd be more than willing shelling out a weeks wages to attend just for kicks and end up making an even bigger ruckus because it cost them more to come and spoil). That is an uniquely Province situation though (although the EP seems to have had the same issues last year on at least one occassion?). For the most part there are quite large crowds though a 50K plus seater can look quite empty very easily.

Being from the Northern suburbs the bigger concern for me is parking/traffic as Newlands is a pretty old area with not as much parking and not as accessable as you'd probably like though the schools and many residents open their gates at usually something like R20 to R50 and the ideal day of rugby includes stopping at one of the schools and braaing from early on eating off the braai throughout the day until match time (Saturdays).

I think the biggest reason rugby fans don't attend though (more so than the traffic/parking situation) is thats it's just easier at home on your TV and you can watch extra games in the time your on the road but IMO that's what radios/walkers/smartphones are for.

 

[Da Grappla]

Then, rugby fans are way different than soccer fans. They don't like football, they like THEIR team and going to THEIR stadium.

I just realised I was thinking with my european mindset of cities without much of the suburban sprawls that you have down there as it is in (north) America. In a middle european town, let's say 400k inhabitants, chances are you could hear the roar from the stadiums in almost every part of the town.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

To be honest I'd just much rather watch a game from the comforts of my own living room. Nice seats, unaffected by the weather, food, commentary, the best view - why would I want to forgo all this? It's great to get along to the odd game (went to France v Japan during the World Cup etc.), but I'd never want to watch a big match (like a final) at the stadium, purely because the rugby experience isn't as good live.

Soccer's a bit different, the game lends itself to being watched live due to how easy it is to tell what's going on - you don't need to be able to hear the referees/commentators. The ball's always visible, you can always tell who's in possession etc.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Then, rugby fans are way different than soccer fans. They don't like football, they like THEIR team and going to THEIR stadium.

I just realised I was thinking with my european mindset of cities without much of the suburban sprawls that you have down there as it is in (north) America. In a middle european town, let's say 400k inhabitants, chances are you could hear the roar from the stadiums in almost every part of the town.

Yes, the vast majority in SA live in subburbs with the inner cities only recently (last decade) getting some people returning as inner city residents. The cities our super rugby franchizes are based in all (bar Bloemfontein) are around the 3 millions people mark if you count the subburbs and our stadia are all 40K - 50K seaters. Altogether a very different setup (though i don't want to get into making value judgements; I might get depressed).

To be honest I'd just much rather watch a game from the comforts of my own living room. Nice seats, unaffected by the weather, food, commentary, the best view - why would I want to forgo all this? It's great to get along to the odd game (went to France v Japan during the World Cup etc.), but I'd never want to watch a big match (like a final) at the stadium, purely because the rugby experience isn't as good live.

Soccer's a bit different, the game lends itself to being watched live due to how easy it is to tell what's going on - you don't need to be able to hear the referees/commentators. The ball's always visible, you can always tell who's in possession etc.

I also tend to go only to a few games, probably 1/4 to 1/3 and always try to get into a.. box? Newlands has so many (this is the unions money-maker and main reason they don't wan t to move to Cape Town Stadium which is without a doubt a better stadium) you are bound to know someone who can get you access if it's not a big derby or play-offs (which I too prefer to watch at home with friends or family) and so you can soak up the atmosphere but still have a drink, good catering and access to the commentary via televisions inside and outside.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Rugby and soccer audiences should not be compared. Gosh in Aus Union and League should not even be compared. Very few SA rugby supporters support a team cause their Daddy do and cause they stay in that city.
SA have big stadiums and every team has it's own "style" - Sharks and Bulls supporters tend to stay away if their teams go through a big slump.
Lions always have more of the visiting teams supporters on a any given day and the Stormers matches are always packed, good or bad years.
Cheetahs are always half full/empty. But when all goes well you can easily get a 50 000 seater full for a Bulls Sharks/Stormers game.
Then also don't compare a 3/4 full SA stadium with a smaller one in Hamilton - just not fair.
Remember SA bring most of the income to SANZAR, gate fees do play a part.

With the favorable airing times I prefer to watch the games at home, starting at 08H35Am with 2hour intervals. The last two games are either at 3 and 5 or 5 and 7PM
That is 6 or 7 games on a Saturday with friends while doing whatever you fancy - I my case have a nice barbecue(braai) and/or potjie and consuming enough alcoholic beverages to make you frown the next day. The woman either watch with us or have their own chatter and the kids are playing/swimming or whatever. All in all these home events are well attended between friends. Anything for 8 to 30 people. I have invested a lot over the years in a proper entertainment are with big-screen HD TV, proper sound feeds, bar, pool table etc. As professional as a normal consumer can go.

I do take my son to one Springbok game at Loftus every year. That is the big event and a highlight of the year.
Every 2nd year we have a bunch of Bulls and Stormers friends that go to Loftus as a crowd and make it a full day event.
On the odd occasion one do get a corporate box ticket (sponsored parking,match ticket, food and beverages) or corporate invite and yes off course we enjoy those at the stadiums.

Leisure reading on crowd attendances - http://www.superxv.com/news/super15_rugby_news.asp?id=35685#.U2jKnXaLUS4 (2012) figures
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/going-with-the-crowd-super-rugby-attendance-trends/ (up to 2012)
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Stormers-lure-top-crowds-20130802 (2013)

Have gone a bit off topic - Is the S15/18/20 economically viable and sustainable - yes, no doubt about that

 

[smartcooky]

Bums on seats at Super Rugby represents a relatively small part of the overall income to the NZRU. The income from sponsorship and the sale of TV rights are by far the most lucrative parts of the income stream.

 

[Shaggy]

To be honest I'd just much rather watch a game from the comforts of my own living room. Nice seats, unaffected by the weather, food, commentary, the best view - why would I want to forgo all this? It's great to get along to the odd game (went to France v Japan during the World Cup etc.), but I'd never want to watch a big match (like a final) at the stadium, purely because the rugby experience isn't as good live.

Soccer's a bit different, the game lends itself to being watched live due to how easy it is to tell what's going on - you don't need to be able to hear the referees/commentators. The ball's always visible, you can always tell who's in possession etc.

I guess my preference is the direct opposite to yours Fish ... I like the live games because you do get to see more than the televised event. TV coverage is great for following the ball, but I like to see what's going on outside of the camera shot. I guess having spent most of my time in NZ, living in Nelson, where the number of Super Rugby games you get to go to is/has been limited, I made the most of the opportunities to attend matches live, when I had the opportunity to go.

... having said all of that, Gena, I like your match day setup ... maybe if I ever get to South Africa, I'll gate crash your party