Italy v Ireland

[Conal]

earls is fantasticly talented he is just lightweight and uber versiatile
him and court hhave the same problem being versatile makes them great subs!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Even this far out there seems to be alot of consensus about how the team will line out. Healy and Ross should start as props. They work well together at club level and are a formidable scummaging unit, something that'll be needed against this Italian side. I'd put Cronin in at hooker for the sake of familiarity. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

In the second row I'd like to see two of Tuohy, Cullen or O'Callaghan. Paulie hasn't played anywhere near enough rugby to be considered in my opinion. maybe he could feature later in the championship if he racks up a few games with Munster but not yet. Toner needs to get himself a starting berth with Leinster to be considered while O'Driscoll has never been good enough in my eyes.

Backrow picks itself. Anyone who argues with Ferris, SOB and Heaslip is a nazi.

Sexton and Stringer will do for e in the middle. Stringer's greatest weakness has always been his size. Technically he has all the skills and with a Fly half who can make a reasonable tackle outside of him he's the best choice. Sexton is a no brainer.

Centres pick themselves. The two boys have been playing well this year and there's no point in messing that combo up.

The back three is by far the most interesting line. We're missing our most recognised full backs so I' curious to see who will get the 15 shirt. If he can recapture some kind of form before the tournament I'd give it to Fitzgerald. He has a strong kicking game and a really good step. On the wings Earls and Bowe are the obvious choices. Earls' passing is too weak imo for him to be an international centre while he is also a bit suspect in defence. Wing is his natural home imo. Bowe is class, easy choice. At the moment I'd have McFadden, Carr and Murphy as my back ups.

So my 22 would be:

1) Healy
2) Cronin
3) Ross
4) O'Callaghan
5) Cullen
6) Ferris
7) O'Brien
8) Heaslip
9) Stringer
10) Sexton
11) Earls
12) D'arcy
13) O'Driscoll
14) Bowe
15) Fitzgerald

16) Varley
17) Court
18) O'Connell/Tuohy
19) Leamy
20) O'Leary
21) O'Gara
22) McFadden

There's a slam in that team if things go well.

Edit:

That leaves out:

Buckle
Best
Wallace
Keatley
Reddan
Trimble
Carr
Horgan
Jennings
Paddy Wallace
Johne Murphy
Toner

Who could probably all come in and do a decent job if required.

 

[Peat]

How is Cronin the familiar pick at hooker? Surely if anyone, its Rory (presuming Flannery isn't fit). I'm guessing Rory's scrummaged more with Healy than Cronin has.

Frankly, if you're really picking on familiarity, pick your line out targets and then pick the guy who throws at them. Which means Varley/Flannery - or Best if you play Tuohy.

edit: Actually, maybe add the lifters to that equation too. Doesn't alter the outcome though.

 

[Conal]

Even this far out there seems to be alot of consensus about how the team will line out. Healy and Ross should start as props. They work well together at club level and are a formidable scummaging unit, something that'll be needed against this Italian side. I'd put Cronin in at hooker for the sake of familiarity. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

In the second row I'd like to see two of Tuohy, Cullen or O'Callaghan. Paulie hasn't played anywhere near enough rugby to be considered in my opinion. maybe he could feature later in the championship if he racks up a few games with Munster but not yet. Toner needs to get himself a starting berth with Leinster to be considered while O'Driscoll has never been good enough in my eyes.

Backrow picks itself. Anyone who argues with Ferris, SOB and Heaslip is a nazi.

Sexton and Stringer will do for e in the middle. Stringer's greatest weakness has always been his size. Technically he has all the skills and with a Fly half who can make a reasonable tackle outside of him he's the best choice. Sexton is a no brainer.

Centres pick themselves. The two boys have been playing well this year and there's no point in messing that combo up.

The back three is by far the most interesting line. We're missing our most recognised full backs so I' curious to see who will get the 15 shirt. If he can recapture some kind of form before the tournament I'd give it to Fitzgerald. He has a strong kicking game and a really good step. On the wings Earls and Bowe are the obvious choices. Earls' passing is too weak imo for him to be an international centre while he is also a bit suspect in defence. Wing is his natural home imo. Bowe is class, easy choice. At the moment I'd have McFadden, Carr and Murphy as my back ups.

So my 22 would be:

1) Healy
2) Cronin
3) Ross
4) O'Callaghan
5) Cullen
6) Ferris
7) O'Brien
8) Heaslip
9) Stringer
10) Sexton
11) Earls
12) D'arcy
13) O'Driscoll
14) Bowe
15) Fitzgerald

16) Varley
17) Court
18) O'Connell/Tuohy
19) Leamy
20) O'Leary
21) O'Gara
22) McFadden

There's a slam in that team if things go well.

kidney might die of shock if he saw that
No buckley? wallace mod ?

however would be an awesome team
even if kidney wants to stick to old guns at least try this out against the italians to see if its as good as it looks

 

[Feicarsinn]

How is Cronin the familiar pick at hooker? Surely if anyone, its Rory (presuming Flannery isn't fit). I'm guessing Rory's scrummaged more with Healy than Cronin has.

Frankly, if you're really picking on familiarity, pick your line out targets and then pick the guy who throws at them. Which means Varley/Flannery - or Best if you play Tuohy.

edit: Actually, maybe add the lifters to that equation too. Doesn't alter the outcome though.

I'd be ore concerned with getting our scrummaging unit right than our lineout at the moment. Cronin seems to be the man in possession of the jersey at the moment and Best hasn't done enough as of yet to take it of him.

Also, on a sidenote, Best can't throw for ****. Not good enough at this level.

 

[Peat]

I'd be ore concerned with getting our scrummaging unit right than our lineout at the moment. Cronin seems to be the man in possession of the jersey at the moment and Best hasn't done enough as of yet to take it of him.

Also, on a sidenote, Best can't throw for ****. Not good enough at this level.

Best is a very good scrummaging hooker and probably Ireland's best there, he played ahead of Cronin in the AIs when fit and Cronin's darts were dodgy too in the AIs.

In fact, Ireland lost more lineouts against Argentina with Cronin throwing than South Africa with Best throwing.

Fair enough you don't rate Best (although obviously I disagree) but I don't buy your arguments as to why Cronin would be ahead of him.

 

[Jockstap]

Best is a very good scrummaging hooker and probably Ireland's best there, he played ahead of Cronin in the AIs when fit and Cronin's darts were dodgy too in the AIs.

In fact, Ireland lost more lineouts against Argentina with Cronin throwing than South Africa with Best throwing.

Fair enough you don't rate Best (although obviously I disagree) but I don't buy your arguments as to why Cronin would be ahead of him.

Because Best is only slightly better at his darts but nowhere near as good in the loose as Cronin. None of that matters though because it should be Varley who gets the 2 shirt for Ireland, his darts are excellent and he's been brilliant in the loose for Munster this season.

 

[Peat]

Now if he'd said that, that might be an argument I'd buy. However, while Cronin's a better ball carrier, I think Rory Best is a better tackler and rucker. I'll point to the stat that Rory Best managed twice as many tackles as Cronin in the All Blacks game, despite Cronin playing 60 minutes of that game, as an example. And as Ireland have tons of ball-carriers and very few disruptive tacklers I know who I'd pick.

Varley deserves his shot at some point.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Varley deserves his shot at some point.

Was going to say that
Would stop everyone bickering over Best/Cronin :lol:

Only really took notice of Varley when munstermuffin was singing his praises during the AIs, but I've been very impressed with what I've seen so far

 

[Conal]

varley to start but who takes the bench??

 

[Peat]

Bah, what else is the point of the board for other than bickering?

Oddly enough though, I've seen a fair few Munster fans elsewhere criticising Varley's throwing. Haven't watched him enough personally. I think anyone who's watch the Flannery/POC/Hayes combo for some time gets slightly unrealistic expectations of how lineouts should be maybe.

Will add this - if Varley played in the AIs, I reckon his throwing skills would be panned as well, and I'd take any of Best/Cronin/Varley for the EPS in a heartbeat.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jason Harris-Wright*

*I may or may not have just wikipedia'd to find an Irish hooker that hasn't been mentioned in this thread

 

[Conal]

for an ireland 22 at the mo id pick

1 healy
2 varley
3 ross
4 o'callaghan
5 cullen
6 ferris
7 o'brien
8 heaslip
9 stringer
10 sexton
11 trimble
12 darcy
13 bod
14 bowe
15 fitzgerald

16 court
17 toner
18 earls
19 p wallace
20 leamy
21 buckley
22 best/ cronin

only 2 back subs as between them cover pretty much anywhere we need the extra forwards to try and stay competitive i think

 

[TRF_Olyy]

On another note, if Kidney doesn't use Cullen this 6N I'm going to shake him by the hand (mainly because I think Cullen is the best Irish lock - he's like a disciplined O'Connell - and I don't want England going up against him then again Micko and Paulie and world class too =/ )

 

[durbutter]

Best being the best scrummaging hooker is a myth.

 

[Conal]

Best being the best scrummaging hooker is a myth.

if you take out the recent rise of varley he was

 

[MichaelBoard]

Everyones talking about Ireland's starting line-up but what about the Itis? Are Sergio Parisse and the Bergamasco brothers fit and playing well for Stade? (I think they all play for Stade Francais) Italy will be without Craig Gower which I think will be a blow for them as although he hasn't adapted to Union that quickly or effectively I do think he was starting to play ok for Italy. As usual the Italian pack is going to be very important factor.
for Italy to have any chance against Ireland they'll need all their star players fit and playign well, thats for certain.

 

[Curls]

Naming a starting XV is one thing but we all know that in the end Kidney will be bogged down in caution and politics. Old reliables like MOD, Trimble and Best will be rolled out without doubt. I saw it mentioned that Ulster get a free spot on the team, well the reality of that is true...however one feels that it is politically motivated...as tommy bowe being sadly an ulsterman from the republic wasnt deemed good enough in the past. Best, Ferris, Wallace and Trimble come from the other side of the fence and so are deemed acceptable to keep things in balance. I hate having to drag that up and when it was 1st suggested to me I fobbed it off, but when you pay attention the theory holds water. So expect to see one of them start in every game! Pray it's Ferris, but if he's hurt then one of the others will be parachuted in!

 

[MichaelBoard]

If what you say is true, that some selections are politically motivated then thats pathetic. Politics hasn't and most definitely shouldn't have any place in Sport. I don't know too much about Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland so I'm not going to insult anybody and say anything about it but at the end of the day when it comes to sport, well the rugby at least there is one Ireland so there shouldn't be any selections based on political matters.

 

[Conal]

Naming a starting XV is one thing but we all know that in the end Kidney will be bogged down in caution and politics. Old reliables like MOD, Trimble and Best will be rolled out without doubt. I saw it mentioned that Ulster get a free spot on the team, well the reality of that is true...however one feels that it is politically motivated...as tommy bowe being sadly an ulsterman from the republic wasnt deemed good enough in the past. Best, Ferris, Wallace and Trimble come from the other side of the fence and so are deemed acceptable to keep things in balance. I hate having to drag that up and when it was 1st suggested to me I fobbed it off, but when you pay attention the theory holds water. So expect to see one of them start in every game! Pray it's Ferris, but if he's hurt then one of the others will be parachuted in!

im sorry but are you actually implying over the years the few ulster players in the team havnt earned there place??

im sorry but to me that sounds like blind ignorance
which ulster player has been played when he hasnt deserved his place then??
bowe was overlooked for ages as god old eos didnt like change and had his holy trinity of hicke horgan and dempsey
bowe wasnt as good as them at the timeor at least didnt do enough to take the shirt of them

the theory does not hold water

where not as good as lenister or munster but are internationals have earned it