Los Pampas XV should be fast-tracked into Super Rugby. 2012 could happen.

[Melhor Time]

http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com/2011/05/los-pampas-xv-into-2011-vodacom-cup.html

Los Pampas XV into 2011 Vodacom Cup Final

The case for Argentina to have a fully professional team in Super Rugby as soon as possible continues to grow as Argentina´s team in South Africa´s Vodacom Cup defeated the Sharks in a semi-final match at the Profert Olën Park in Potchfestroom on Friday in South Africa. The semi final win continues the undefeated season of Los Pampas XV and means the team will face the winner of the Blue Bulls and Griquas in the Vodacom Cup Final at a yet to be determined venue. The South American´s won the semi final after coming back from a 10-0 deficit in the first half and a firsthalf deficit of 16-10. The Sharks scored the games first points with a penalty to fullback Gouws Prinsloo in the first minute of play. He also slotted two further first half penalties in the 37th and 40th minutes and converted his sides first half try which was scored by left winger Try de Rosko Specman in the sixth minute and converted by Prinsloo. The scoreboard at the end of the first half was a realistic reflection of the first 40 minutes as the Sharks had the better of play. Los Pampas XV managed one try through secondrower, Julio Farías, who was playing in the backrow for this match. Flyhalf, Nicolás Sánchez slotted the conversion.

Los Pampas XV turned the match on its head in the second-half as the Argentine side took firm control of the match immediately following the interval. Sánchez cut the deficit to six points with a penalty goal in the 42nd minute before scumhalf, Nicolás Bruzzone put Los Pampas XV in the lead following a 45th minute try which Sánchez converted. Highly promising winger, Juan Imhoff had another stand-out performance as he scored his sides third try several minutes latter but the Sharks were still in the match as Prinsloo slotted a penalty goal in the 59th minute. Pampas XV fullback, Joaquín Tuculet went over in the 64th minute as the South Americans were going through a period of the match in which they dominated possession. Then five minutes latter, the third member of Los Pampas XV´ back three got his name on the scorecard as Agustín Gosio´converted try all but gave the Argentine´ victory. Both teams managed late tries with Imhoff scoring his second try, after a long range interception, with 4 minutes remaining and Sharks winger, Mark Richards going over for a try in the final minute of play. This closed play and gave Los Pampas XV a 41-26 victory.

 

[nickdnz]

I'd be happy if it meant a change back to it's old format, with each team playing each other once. Don't know if they'd be all that competitive unless they bought a couple of big name players like Hernandez or Contepomi.

 

[lucky number 7]

The last three words of this thread ***le scare me

 

[Charles]

Wouldn't it be better if they played in the Currie Cup first?

 

[gingergenius]

What Charles said.

If Super Rugby does want to continue expanding (which it will probably have to), I do think that a Heineken Cup style format is the only option. I watch several S15 games every weekend and I'm still confused by the format this year. And clearly each side playing each other once won't be feasible as the tournament gets bigger and bigger.

I certainly don't see the current structure of rugby in the SH staying static for too long.

 

[smartcooky]

What Charles said.

If Super Rugby does want to continue expanding (which it will probably have to), I do think that a Heineken Cup style format is the only option. I watch several S15 games every weekend and I'm still confused by the format this year. And clearly each side playing each other once won't be feasible as the tournament gets bigger and bigger.

I certainly don't see the current structure of rugby in the SH staying static for too long.

Really?. After 12 weeks you still don't understand?

Have a look at the table above and see the numbers in the "R" (ranking) column. This is thee playoff ranking. If the playoffs were to be held now...

Week 1
Blues (1) and Reds (2) have the week off
QF1: Stormers (3) v Waratahs (6) at Newlands
QF2: Crusaders (4) v Sharks (5) at somewhere in NZ

Week 2:
SF1: Blues (1) v the lower ranked QF winner
SF2: Reds (2) v the highest ranked QF winner


As for the rest of your post, I agree that something like the Heineken Cup format probably how it will eventually go.

Melhor Time

I agree with the sentiment, but I cannot see any practical way to put just ONE team from Argentina into Super Rugby in the current format. To have one Conference of six and two Conferences of five is unworkable, and would bias the wild-cards places in favour of the Conference with six teams.

The only way it can work is have three teams (one in each conference) or five teams (a whole conference based in Argentina. There is a two team solution as well.

In the three team scenario, I can't see any practical way too arrange the cross conference matches.

In the extra (Argentina) Conference scenario, it would be necessary to either reduce the number of cross-conference matches for each team from eight (four out of five across each of the two other conferences) to six (two out of five across each of the other three conferences), or increase it to nine (three out of five across each of the other three conferences).

One other option might be to allow the South African Conference to expand to six teams to include the team from the Eastern Cape (which is what they want anyway), then to include two Argentinian teams; one in each of the New Zealand and Australian Conferences.

 

[Aedaphon]

Is there no cup-style tournament in the Southern Hemisphere? I think all the non SANZAR nations would benefit from such a tournament.

Forgoing that why not look into a lower-tier for the Super 15? There are plenty of SANZAR and Pacific island/Argentinian teams that would be more than willing to fight for a place in the tournament and it'd put a little more pressure on the lower teams, ie Lions etc.

 

[William18]

Really?. After 12 weeks you still don't understand?

Have a look at the table above and see the numbers in the "R" (ranking) column. This is thee playoff ranking. If the playoffs were to be held now...

Week 1
Blues (1) and Reds (2) have the week off
QF1: Stormers (3) v Waratahs (6) at Newlands
QF2: Crusaders (4) v Sharks (5) at somewhere in NZ

Week 2:
SF1: Blues (1) v the lower ranked QF winner
SF2: Reds (2) v the highest ranked QF winner


As for the rest of your post, I agree that something like the Heineken Cup format probably how it will eventually go.

Melhor Time

I agree with the sentiment, but I cannot see any practical way to put just ONE team from Argentina into Super Rugby in the current format. To have one Conference of six and two Conferences of five is unworkable, and would bias the wild-cards places in favour of the Conference with six teams.

The only way it can work is have three teams (one in each conference) or five teams (a whole conference based in Argentina. There is a two team solution as well.

In the three team scenario, I can't see any practical way too arrange the cross conference matches.

In the extra (Argentina) Conference scenario, it would be necessary to either reduce the number of cross-conference matches for each team from eight (four out of five across each of the two other conferences) to six (two out of five across each of the other three conferences), or increase it to nine (three out of five across each of the other three conferences).

One other option might be to allow the South African Conference to expand to six teams to include the team from the Eastern Cape (which is what they want anyway), then to include two Argentinian teams; one in each of the New Zealand and Australian Conferences.

If Argentina were to have a team, I think that they would have to do away with the whole conference idea. If you expand the conferences to 6 teams each and still play every team once plus those in your conference twice then you are playing 22 games, plus two byes for each team and another three weeks for the playoffs. That is far too long. I honestly would never like to see an Argentinian team in the competition as it would just complicate it too much.

 

[smartcooky]

If Argentina were to have a team, I think that they would have to do away with the whole conference idea. If you expand the conferences to 6 teams each and still play every team once plus those in your conference twice then you are playing 22 games, plus two byes for each team and another three weeks for the playoffs. That is far too long. I honestly would never like to see an Argentinian team in the competition as it would just complicate it too much.

Your maths is out

► Six teams playing each other twice (1 home 1 away) = 10 matches for each team
► each team playing three cross conference matches in each conference = 9 matches for each team
......total 19 matches each team

► If you made the cross conference matches two per team for each conference instead of three, thats 6 cross conference matches
..... total 16 matches each team

If you used the second option, the number of matches per team would not change

Currently each team plays 8 matches within their conference and 8 outside.
----- total 16 matches per team

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The last three words of this thread ***le scare me

I ROFL'ed

They obviously wouldn't win at first, but if they could attract a couple of marquee players

they would at least be better than the Lions

and then with added interest in Argentina with a team playing in a high class professional league, more interest would be created and could get more money in Argentina rugby and then better academies and hopefully more and more players coming through, they would get better and better

I suspect they wouldn't but that's a bit beside the point as I am also all for the Argies to come onboard in both Super rugby and Trinations (which is in more dire need of an update).

It'd have to force the tournament to go back to each team playing the other once as those 4 extra derbies really put the hurt on teams. That makes room for at least 4 extra teams to keep the amount of games the same as I am sure the broadcaster and the people bagging the money have allready gotten used to the idea of more games and there's no going back. Maybe those 4 teams could be 1 extra from each of the current nations and Los Pampas until Arg can come with more teams and the other nations have promotion/relegation systems.

A Heinekin cup system would only work if there were more teams involved. HC is at 24. Thats still a long way off. Also, the amount of games per team gets cut drastically if the pools aren't big. That also takes a bit away from the 1 thing that Super rugby has over HC IMO which is the fact that its still small and managable enough to actually have all the teams play each other. Top 8 in play-offs might help offset, somewhat, the drama generated by the alteernative pool to play-off system. Can't see this happen too soon.

 

[Cassie]

The vodacom cup final will be interesting when we get to see the Pampas take on the Blue Bulls. I've seen these Pampas play the Sharks, they are a very dangerous unit. I agree that the derby matches can be reduces to try and introduce the Argies into SuperRugby.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I'd say they have to go through the currie cup (or the NPC?) first. And also, the UAR has to sort out internal stuff first. They have a real struggle against the URBA (Buenos Aires Rugby Union, which organizes the most competitive club tournament) who does not want professional players playing their league.
And the format for super rugby is a really tricky issue, given the distances and all: don't forget that between Australia and Argentina there is a ~12 hour time difference, and the flight is about 18 hours... if they happen to be going to Sidney. That may not be a problem to he Argentine side, as they could pool their away matches, but I don't think that the SANZAR teams will enjoy going to BA... Pampas having only away matches would be devastating, they would never earn a single point (except for the "bye" points XD).
I really don't see this happening, as it will also be har to keep the players in Argentina instead of going to Europe for the big money.

 

[skittles]

Part of Argentina joining the Tri-Nations was investigation into whether Argentinian players would be likely to play for Super Rugby teams. Right now the emphasis isn't on an Argentinian team playing Super Rugby, but Argentinian players playing for Super Rugby teams is part of the agenda.

 

[The_Wol]

People seem to believe that with Super 15 not playing some teams is part of the format, that is only for this year.... next year they will play every team in the competition.

 

[skittles]

People seem to believe that with Super 15 not playing some teams is part of the format, that is only for this year.... next year they will play every team in the competition.

Not according to the official tournament manual.

 

[The_Wol]

Not according to the official tournament manual.

It is a world cup year, in other years they will play all teams in the competition, otherwise the teams that don't play certain teams may gain an unfair advantage, i.e. Crusaders missing Reds, waratahs, Stormers and Bulls. that would give the Crusaders and unfair advantage, next year the competition will revert to a competition where every team plays each other.

 

[skittles]

I work at SANZAR and am helping with the draw; teams are missing others in other years, just the same as this year. It's the June internationals that are scrapped in World Cup years.

 

[The_Wol]

I work at SANZAR and am helping with the draw; teams are missing others in other years, just the same as this year. It's the June internationals that are scrapped in World Cup years.

Uhuh. Excuse me if I'm skeptical.

 

[skittles]

Be skeptical all you want, but I do work there one day a week assisting the operations manager. Don't really do anything too special; it's mostly admin stuff. It's part of my professional experience for uni.

 

[ranger]

What Charles said.

If Super Rugby does want to continue expanding (which it will probably have to), I do think that a Heineken Cup style format is the only option. I watch several S15 games every weekend and I'm still confused by the format this year. And clearly each side playing each other once won't be feasible as the tournament gets bigger and bigger.

I certainly don't see the current structure of rugby in the SH staying static for too long.

A heiniken cup format is not an option because the Australians dont have the player base or fan support to run their own competition. If we went to an HC format we would probably just lose most of australia to league within a few years.