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Ma'a Nonu

J

-JJ-

Guest
Nonu was rubbish against Waikato. Fell off tackles and got ran around. He needs to improve a lot on that performance if he's wanting to be an All Black again.
 
S

ShowMe

Guest
what about:

12 mcalister/mauger
13 smith
15 mils
[/b]

Mauger and smith is not that intimidating, especially with what weve been used to. Maybe mcalister/smith, but mauger is no.1 at 2nd5 so the 13 jersey at the moment will revolve around him. Id stick with mils. Would still like to see mcalister at centre. I recall him playing there a few times for the blues in 05 when spencer was 10 and tuitupou at 12.
 
O

O'Rothlain

Guest
This is all a big conspiracy for Umaga to play in France this year to SPY on them, figure out the environment before his 'surprise' inclusion next year as our ultimate secret weapon.

He is showing average form now to hide it.
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Seriously...why did he bow out? I know he's accomplished alot, but couldn't he do really well at the upcoming World Cup? Isn't Umaga still the best 13 for the All Blacks if he would play?
umaga_sidelines_d.jpg
 
C

Caledfwlch

Guest
amaybe umaga didnt want anything to do with the "curse" that haunts the all blacks during world cup deciders. having said that, i think umaga would probably have led the ABs to the world cup
 
S

ShowMe

Guest
He retired from international rugby to spend more time with his family, and good on him for doing so. At the end of the day, those are the people that matter the most.
 
O

O'Rothlain

Guest
He retired from international rugby to spend more time with his family, and good on him for doing so. At the end of the day, those are the people that matter the most.
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Yeah, those people and me. And I say play International Rugby. I guess he's made his choice and will have to live with knowing that he's hurt a young boy with big dreams.
 
S

ShowMe

Guest
Hurt a young boy with big dreams? how exactly?

He had to weigh up his priorities in life, International rugby is not always gonna be there for him, especially at his age, but his family are. So hes decided to invest in his family...his kids who will have to look after him when he gets old and his tireless wife beside him... these are the things that really matter not just for him, but for most of us aswell who take family as a major priority if not 1st priority. Only respect for the gentlemen who make big decisions like this coz it definately wasnt easy for him to just pack it all up and call it a day, heck he was pretty much gauranteed of his AB jersey for next years world cup!
Hes given so much to NZrugby and world rugby, and has served the AB jersey well. I think its a previlage we still get to see him at provincial and S14 level, in my eyes hes already a legend no matter how long he decides to play below international level becoz hes gone out ontop unlike most other rugby players.
 
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Caledfwlch

Guest
precisely because his family would be ther while rugby would not, he should have had one last go at the world cup. whats 1 more year?!?!?
 
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cwans

Guest
Ok here's what Umaga is doing.

He is in effect resting and reconditioning by saying that he wont play the internationals then spring a surprise visit to the world cup tournament.

He'll try his best to fake an injury here and there and miss most of super 14, and miss trinations due to 'retirement' and then come back JUST for the world cup refreshed.

Back to Nonu...

Nonu on the other hand is doing everything possible to miss end of year tour. It's not like the coaches havent told him. He's been like this for a few years now. Burst onto the scene as the next best thing since Bunce, then told to work on defence after the first few games, and he is STILL like this.

A bit like Tuiaili (spelling) for AB no. 8. His time was then, given a few cracks but NEVER took hold of the jersey on both hands like he really wanted to be there.

There are two types of ABs, one who made it because his form is undeniable during that season (Hamilton), and ones who are given SO many opportunities but falter (Nonu, Mose, Laulala, Atiga, Kaino, **** thanks to rotation a lot can be named here)...

And then there are the injury-prone ones. Tom Willis, Keith Robinson. Had Keith Robinson played without getting injured last two years he would be the starting lock opposite Chris Jack no questions asked.
 
N

nez

Guest
completely agree with cwans on the point about nonu and the others not living up to potential after being given a go. Does the fact that the ab's go through so many players just to 'give them a go' and then the players not kicking on, frustrate anyone else?
 
S

ShowMe

Guest
precisely because his family would be ther while rugby would not, he should have had one last go at the world cup. whats 1 more year?!?!?
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Hmmm, no i think yall are missin the point...
Yeah sure ok...i mean...its easy for any of us to just assume this coz we dont know his circumstances...infact youd probably be right i mean what is one more year?...or two?...heck i reckon he could go on for three more...but that aint the point...
that one more year is one more year spent on the no.1 priority in his life...we all have no.1 priorities in life and we give most of our time in our lives to that no.1 priority dont we, do you understand? His family are his no.1 priority, so in effect its a priority that overrides his ambitions of possible world cup glory and thats it! end of story. Hard call to make but he aint makin these decisions for himself, if he was then sure world cup next year, but like i said...hes investing in something thats more important to him than rugby.


Back to Nonu...

Nonu on the other hand is doing everything possible to miss end of year tour. It's not like the coaches havent told him. He's been like this for a few years now. Burst onto the scene as the next best thing since Bunce, then told to work on defence after the first few games, and he is STILL like this.

A bit like Tuiaili (spelling) for AB no. 8. His time was then, given a few cracks but NEVER took hold of the jersey on both hands like he really wanted to be there.

There are two types of ABs, one who made it because his form is undeniable during that season (Hamilton), and ones who are given SO many opportunities but falter (Nonu, Mose, Laulala, Atiga, Kaino, **** thanks to rotation a lot can be named here)...

And then there are the injury-prone ones. Tom Willis, Keith Robinson. Had Keith Robinson played without getting injured last two years he would be the starting lock opposite Chris Jack no questions asked.
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thats 3 types :p



If i could just add to that...or totally revamp that lol

There are 6 types of ABs:

One hit wonder ABs: not necessarily playing just one test in the black jersey but not enough to be properly recognized - atiga, tiatia, cribb, anesi, witcombe, devine

Nearly ABs: excellent S14/ANZcup form, average international form - hamilton, ralph, laulala

Counting Lucky stars ABs: those players who get more than enough chances to shine - tuialii, toeava

Veteran ABs: Long serving players, otherwise any player thats racked up 50 or more tests - marshall, spencer

Superstar ABs: Get paid more than normal and served the black jersey long and well - Lomu

Legendary ABs: speaks for itself, no intro needed for any of these names - Lachore, Meads, Shelford, Fitzpatrick
 
G

Gay-Guy

Guest
Back to Nonu...

...it is no secret that the AB's have for a long time always preferred a defensive organised tackling centre first......line breaks second....distribution skills third (AB management rely on the first and second fives to ditribute the ball around.....even to the wings).

Maa Nonu is fantastic with line breaks...however this fantastic weapon of his can be killed by good defensive centres. Remember Nonu's first test against England and how much he sucked breaking the line. Very much like Eroni Clarke against England in '93 where he failed to break the midfield. Clarke spent years re-inventing himself after that failing.

Maa sucks majorly at defence both himself personaly with tackling and also reading the play and controllign his other defenders....very very bad for an AB centre...

Maa has some idea of passing....but his first instinct like Jonah is to run....however unlike Jonah he needs to realise that the people outside him are faster than him. Jonah was also twice the size and had twice the impact.

Maa Nonu is good....but no idea where to put him in the AB's except on the bench for the second half if things are desperate and we are BEHIND.......he should have played in '03 instead of MacDonald at centre when it was all fallling apart...actually that year he was good enough to start that semi.

The AB's will win next years RWC regardless....
 
C

cwans

Guest
Good thoughts abt nonu Gay-guy...

There seriously aren't many centres left we can use really for our squad. I cannot think of any centre that has clearly put his hand up. I'm hoping like hell someone like Kahui has a breakout season in SUper 14 next year without the ABs, and then get a callup, kicked ass, then stay there.

I thought Mils is the answer, however after Trinations I felt that he is best at Fullback and with Mcdonald losing his pace, general rugby nous I reckon Mils at fullback fulltime.
 
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Gay-Guy

Guest
Yeah this seasons end of year tour is the last chance to really find anyone dynamic! Finding someone new in next years S14 is cutting it close.

A good centre would need 3 years to establish themselves at international level. Mils has got the defence thing coming along but we are runnig out of time.

Smith is similar to Umaga when reading the defence but he has been injured and has delayed his
international development.

Can't really think of anyone else who is good on defence at centre....
 
S

ShowMe

Guest
So much for henrys player depth, becomes a bit of a farce when one of the best FBs in the world is actually the answer at centre. What we are really looking for is someone to partner mauger, hes the number one 2nd5.
I thought McAlister could be used at centre...Im sure theyve thought of that too, hes got the phisical and distribution attributes, vision and the skills required, hed give the 2nd dimension to the backline after carter, and we saw a bit of this when they played together in pretoria. Or how bout tuitupou? playing sum good footy at the mo, hed be a candidate for the end of year tour, be interesting to see what impact he could make in the centres.
 
G

Gay-Guy

Guest
MacAlister didn't clean up Elsom and just clipped him in the tackle....most people knows what that means, you don't have to be a selector.
 
C

cwans

Guest
If Rugby were like league I'll put Evans, Carter, Mauger, Maclister, Mils, Sivivatu and Cocopops in my backline and have them roam around.

Its such a pity we have so much competition in one position (12) but NONE whatsoever in the other (13).

Makes us wonder why Umaga retired a yr out from World Cup. GrRRR...

We have 13s going around atm that are insanely inconsistent:

Nonu - defensive liability

Tuituvake - Inconsistent... brilliant one game and non-existent in the other

Conrad - Not a line breaker, but probably the best of the 13s... he is the glue of the welly backline with so much -linebreakers- He lacks pace cp to others

Kahui - too 'green' for World Cup squad. But he is definitely the form ANZ Cup center

Neil Brew - Average

Who else is there? RICO GEAR AT CENTRE??? (We have too many wingers)
 
S

ShowMe

Guest
MacAlister didn't clean up Elsom and just clipped him in the tackle....most people knows what that means, you don't have to be a selector.
[/b]

hmm, yeah...we got smith who i think is probably one of if not the best centre defensively, but on attack hes not much of a threat to be honest, i mean teams like oz and france wouldnt be shaking in their boots, where as we have nonu, awesome on attack but a liability on defence as we all know, i threw mcalisters name in the mix coz i rekon he has the best balance of both not including mils, toeava and laulala are pretty much the same, playing good footy for their provincial/S14 teams, but cant make the step up to international and get found out. Tuitavake can be exciting, quick off the mark, similar to nonu but not as explosive. Weve been so used to umaga the gap hes left is probably bigger than we anticipated.
 
C

cwans

Guest
Agreed about Umaga. Although mind you if we were now to select centres based on form, and Umaga didnt say he's retired, he probably won't make the team.

He hasn't shown that he is the best centre out of all the centres this year. I'd still say we need to 'blood' a bolter for end of year tour. We already know Toe ava is crap at international level, so how about putting nonu on the wing for end of year tour, and picking Kahui and Tuituvake for centres.

Smith is unlucky to NOT make the side as MacLister can't bump off Mauger for the 12 berth.

This is how I see the team going into the end of year tour.

Against France (for both games)

15 Mils
14 Nonu
13 Tuituvake OR Kahui (play both each half? This would be ultimate acid test against the greatest threat to our world cup aspirations)
12 Mauger
11 Sivivatu
10 Carter
9 Kelleher
8 Collins
7 McCaw
6 Lauaki
5 Jack
4 Ryan Or Eaten Or Keith Robinson!!! :p
3 Hayman
2 MEalamu
1 Woodcock

Every position in the starting fifteen is set in stone pretty much apart from

13 and 4

In my mind anyways those are the two positions lacking a clear cut best player. What I'm glad about is that we have a settled front row. Mike Cron's credit?
 

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