Martin Johnson Era has Begun.

[dundeesmiffy]

Maori isn't a country so it doesn't matter if Flutey has played for them.

1. Stevens
2. Hartley
3. Sheridan
4. Kennedy
5. Shaw
6. Haskell
7. Rees
8. Crane

9.Ellis
10. Wilkinson
11. Sackey
12. Flutey
13. Tait
14. Simpson
15. Lewsey

That team could smash the 6 nations

dundeesmiffy:

"I however, and not that bothered about it, seeing as I'm Scottish, haha. I sincerely hope he isn't any part of the British and Irish Lions tour, on the same principal...even if I don't consider myself British."


Scotland is a part of Great Britain, therefore you are British. I will prove this to you, go look at your passport, what does it say?
[/b]

1) I am fully aware that Maori isn't a country, my point was that he has represented New Zealand at youth level and as a Maori, fair enough it's only a cross section of the population but he has played international rugby as a professional player and that IN MY OPINION should make him ineligible to play for England or any other country he stays in for long enough. That is more or less my qualm with Flutey playing for England and or the British Lions.

2) I am fully aware that my passport is a British one, but I don't consider myself British. It's not through ignorance, blind patriotism or resentment for the former British empire but it's because I find if you ask a non-Brit to define what they think Britain is, they conjure up imagery of Tea, Crumpets and loving the queen. This is not true (stereotypically) for Scots, Welsh and Irish people and it is for that reason I do not consider myself or refer to myself as British.
I don't dislike the English, I went out with a girl from England (who stayed in England) for 2 years and I have friends in England, but I don't consider myself British, because when you say "British" people hear "English".
I'm not saying every Scot, Welsh and Irish person shouldn't refer to themselves as British, I'm just saying I don't although I am prepared to admit that I legally am a British person.

3) LOL @ ur backline!!1!

4) I've said it before, Paul Sakey isn't a, excellent winger, I would say he's perfectly adequate...and he seems to score a lot of tries for England...which unless I'm mistaken is how you win games in most cases. Maybe his defense is ropey, but for his offensive work it's hard to say he's terrible.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
What people see in Sackey is beyond me. I lol @ England if he's the best wing you've got.
[/b]

He's quick, strong, scores lots of tries and has a very underrated defence. Unless Horgan's on fire he should walk into the Lions team.

[/b][/quote]
I don't doubt his finishing ability; I agree that given in any try-scoring situation, 99 times out of 100 he'll finish it, but since half the tries he scores are sitters that the majority of the British population could score I find him unbelievably overrated by Wasps fans and the English population.
The wings for the Lions should be:

Shane Williams
JSD

If there's any justice in the World at least.

While we're at it, I suggest we put Dan Parks at 12 and Chris Paterson at fullback.
Oh, and don't forget Adam Jones at tight-head.
[/b][/quote]

I wouldn't put Dan Parks anywhere near a Lions shirt, there are a plethora of talents 12's in the UK; James Hook, Gavin Henson, Olly Barkley to name a few.

 

[Bullitt]

reads Mite's post, see's Ashton, scoffs at a guy who's never even played premiership rugby and the obvious Saints bias clouding things... [/b]

Remove Saints Bias as I have been thinking he'd be cracking for England since he was rumoured to be signing for Leicester.

Then see his Super League and England RL record and add a dash of f*** you.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
What people see in Sackey is beyond me. I lol @ England if he's the best wing you've got.
[/b]

He's quick, strong, scores lots of tries and has a very underrated defence. Unless Horgan's on fire he should walk into the Lions team.

[/b][/quote]
I don't doubt his finishing ability; I agree that given in any try-scoring situation, 99 times out of 100 he'll finish it, but since half the tries he scores are sitters that the majority of the British population could score I find him unbelievably overrated by Wasps fans and the English population.
The wings for the Lions should be:

Shane Williams
JSD

If there's any justice in the World at least.

While we're at it, I suggest we put Dan Parks at 12 and Chris Paterson at fullback.
Oh, and don't forget Adam Jones at tight-head.
[/b][/quote]

lmao. if dan parks gets anywhere near a lions shirt i'll cry. and paterson couldn't even make the gloucester team. lee byrne has to be the top 15 atm....

well in order to satisfy mite's criteria i reckon you have to put farrell and paul in the centres and vainikolo on the wing because of course being good at RL means everything...

 

[EnglandWillWin2011]

<div class='quotemain'>
Maori isn't a country so it doesn't matter if Flutey has played for them.

1. Stevens
2. Hartley
3. Sheridan
4. Kennedy
5. Shaw
6. Haskell
7. Rees
8. Crane

9.Ellis
10. Wilkinson
11. Sackey
12. Flutey
13. Tait
14. Simpson
15. Lewsey

That team could smash the 6 nations

dundeesmiffy:

"I however, and not that bothered about it, seeing as I'm Scottish, haha. I sincerely hope he isn't any part of the British and Irish Lions tour, on the same principal...even if I don't consider myself British."


Scotland is a part of Great Britain, therefore you are British. I will prove this to you, go look at your passport, what does it say?
[/b]

1) I am fully aware that Maori isn't a country, my point was that he has represented New Zealand at youth level and as a Maori, fair enough it's only a cross section of the population but he has played international rugby as a professional player and that IN MY OPINION should make him ineligible to play for England or any other country he stays in for long enough. That is more or less my qualm with Flutey playing for England and or the British Lions.

2) I am fully aware that my passport is a British one, but I don't consider myself British. It's not through ignorance, blind patriotism or resentment for the former British empire but it's because I find if you ask a non-Brit to define what they think Britain is, they conjure up imagery of Tea, Crumpets and loving the queen. This is not true (stereotypically) for Scots, Welsh and Irish people and it is for that reason I do not consider myself or refer to myself as British.
I don't dislike the English, I went out with a girl from England (who stayed in England) for 2 years and I have friends in England, but I don't consider myself British, because when you say "British" people hear "English".
I'm not saying every Scot, Welsh and Irish person shouldn't refer to themselves as British, I'm just saying I don't although I am prepared to admit that I legally am a British person.

3) LOL @ ur backline!!1!

4) I've said it before, Paul Sakey isn't a, excellent winger, I would say he's perfectly adequate...and he seems to score a lot of tries for England...which unless I'm mistaken is how you win games in most cases. Maybe his defense is ropey, but for his offensive work it's hard to say he's terrible.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
What people see in Sackey is beyond me. I lol @ England if he's the best wing you've got.
[/b]

He's quick, strong, scores lots of tries and has a very underrated defence. Unless Horgan's on fire he should walk into the Lions team.

[/b][/quote]
I don't doubt his finishing ability; I agree that given in any try-scoring situation, 99 times out of 100 he'll finish it, but since half the tries he scores are sitters that the majority of the British population could score I find him unbelievably overrated by Wasps fans and the English population.
The wings for the Lions should be:

Shane Williams
JSD

If there's any justice in the World at least.

While we're at it, I suggest we put Dan Parks at 12 and Chris Paterson at fullback.
Oh, and don't forget Adam Jones at tight-head.
[/b][/quote]

I wouldn't put Dan Parks anywhere near a Lions shirt, there are a plethora of talents 12's in the UK; James Hook, Gavin Henson, Olly Barkley to name a few.
[/b][/quote]

1. So if you are dual nationality, and you play in a second grade national team you should have to play for this nation forever, even if you don't come close to being picked for this nation? I think it's pretty unfair to stop someone playing international rugby because they once played for the second team or the age-group of a nation when they were younger.
2. So because some stupid ignorant people from outside your own country think Britain and England are one thing you will not regard yourself as British? You're as daft as them mate.
4. I think Sackey's defence is quite excellent. He never misses a tackle, and im very happy to have him on the wing for England.

<div class='quotemain'>reads Mite's post, see's Ashton, scoffs at a guy who's never even played premiership rugby and the obvious Saints bias clouding things... [/b]

Remove Saints Bias as I have been thinking he'd be cracking for England since he was rumoured to be signing for Leicester.

Then see his Super League and England RL record and add a dash of f*** you.
[/b][/quote]
How good do you think Ashton will be in the premiership and how far do you think he can go in regards to internationals?

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
What people see in Sackey is beyond me. I lol @ England if he's the best wing you've got.
[/b]

He's quick, strong, scores lots of tries and has a very underrated defence. Unless Horgan's on fire he should walk into the Lions team.

[/b][/quote]
I don't doubt his finishing ability; I agree that given in any try-scoring situation, 99 times out of 100 he'll finish it, but since half the tries he scores are sitters that the majority of the British population could score I find him unbelievably overrated by Wasps fans and the English population.
The wings for the Lions should be:

Shane Williams
JSD

If there's any justice in the World at least.

While we're at it, I suggest we put Dan Parks at 12 and Chris Paterson at fullback.
Oh, and don't forget Adam Jones at tight-head.
[/b][/quote]

lmao. if dan parks gets anywhere near a lions shirt i'll cry. and paterson couldn't even make the gloucester team. lee byrne has to be the top 15 atm....

well in order to satisfy mite's criteria i reckon you have to put farrell and paul in the centres and vainikolo on the wing because of course being good at RL means everything...
[/b][/quote]
Did nobody realise I was being sarcastic or am I just not noticing you're playing along with me? >_>

 

[Bullitt]

well in order to satisfy mite's criteria i reckon you have to put farrell and paul in the centres and vainikolo on the wing because of course being good at RL means everything... [/b]

Yeah, because a player who's just as good as a young Jason Robinson is worth nothing, we are talking about a fast winger, not an over-rated panface, Henry "lol" Paul or a poor mans Lomu. Now STFU.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>reads Mite's post, see's Ashton, scoffs at a guy who's never even played premiership rugby and the obvious Saints bias clouding things... [/b]

Remove Saints Bias as I have been thinking he'd be cracking for England since he was rumoured to be signing for Leicester.

Then see his Super League and England RL record and add a dash of f*** you.
[/b][/quote]
How good do you think Ashton will be in the premiership and how far do you think he can go in regards to internationals? [/b][/quote]

Top scorer next season, no problem.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Top scorer next season, no problem.
[/b]

Defences are stronger in the Guinness Premiership, believe it or not.

 

[errlloyd]

I made an undefended and quite concise (shall we call it) remark earlier on (first page 4th from the bottom), and Prestwick asked me to elaborate. I just think England fail because you think a captain makes a good coach.

I already think it was an epic fail letting go of Ashton.


I really don't feel like defending what I said right now, actually right now I feel like sleeping, a lot.

But we will see if Martin Johnson can make England into the team that a large country in which rugby is probably the second most popular sport should have, methinks (firefox is telling me methinks is one word I thought it was slang) he will fail, epically. You disagree ?

 

[Prestwick]

I really don't feel like defending what I said right now, actually right now I feel like sleeping, a lot. [/b]

Not saying I disagree, just wanted you to elaborate on a comment which contributed little or nothing to the discussion.

Don't worry, I'll just wait until Leinster hire/fire/do something and I'll post an equally unhelpful comment like

"doing that thing to that person = fail."

Or words to those effect, I'll try and maximise the vaugeness and ambiguity factors by about 200.

 

[Maccaweeny]

Top scorer next season, no problem.
[/b]

 

[Bullitt]

Keep on scoffing. Arseholes.

 

[Maccaweeny]

I just wanted to post the wutermelon.

 

[errlloyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

I really don't feel like defending what I said right now, actually right now I feel like sleeping, a lot. [/b]

Not saying I disagree, just wanted you to elaborate on a comment which contributed little or nothing to the discussion.

Don't worry, I'll just wait until Leinster hire/fire/do something and I'll post an equally unhelpful comment like

"doing that thing to that person = fail."

Or words to those effect, I'll try and maximise the vaugeness and ambiguity factors by about 200.
[/b][/quote]



Feel free I'll probably agree with you.

I don't see why you wanted me to post a helpful comment though. Would you prefer I had said "oh Jonno if your reading this and you need anything get in contact [email protected].

Like if this was a tech support forum then fair enough I should have posted something helpful but really this a rugby opinion forum, and my opinion is that hiring your captain from 5 years ago is a fail and shows that you can't let go of the 1 time in the last 15 years were something good happened to England. (Yes I know there will be an anti Irish Rebuttle, but I don't give a toss), just because he was the one of the 8 forwards and 1 back that had the C beside his name doesn't mean that he can stand on the sideline and make 15 mainly unrelated people win matches.

But as I say time will tell, and I think it will show that captains can't necessarily coach (ok Roy Keane did an alright job at Sunderland and he wasn't long out of the game).


Increasing Vagueness <--- that doesn't make sense to me.....

 

[Prestwick]

What you put what basically incredibly vague and didn't really add much to the conversation, thats all. Any idiot can say "lol, Johnson = fail" but you didn't really elaborate beyond that, hence the ensuing mocking. If being vague doesn't make sense to you, maybe you should review your previous post!

What I would have preferred is if you had put what you just put in your original post!

 

[dundeesmiffy]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Maori isn't a country so it doesn't matter if Flutey has played for them.

1. Stevens
2. Hartley
3. Sheridan
4. Kennedy
5. Shaw
6. Haskell
7. Rees
8. Crane

9.Ellis
10. Wilkinson
11. Sackey
12. Flutey
13. Tait
14. Simpson
15. Lewsey

That team could smash the 6 nations

dundeesmiffy:

"I however, and not that bothered about it, seeing as I'm Scottish, haha. I sincerely hope he isn't any part of the British and Irish Lions tour, on the same principal...even if I don't consider myself British."


Scotland is a part of Great Britain, therefore you are British. I will prove this to you, go look at your passport, what does it say?
[/b]

1) I am fully aware that Maori isn't a country, my point was that he has represented New Zealand at youth level and as a Maori, fair enough it's only a cross section of the population but he has played international rugby as a professional player and that IN MY OPINION should make him ineligible to play for England or any other country he stays in for long enough. That is more or less my qualm with Flutey playing for England and or the British Lions.

2) I am fully aware that my passport is a British one, but I don't consider myself British. It's not through ignorance, blind patriotism or resentment for the former British empire but it's because I find if you ask a non-Brit to define what they think Britain is, they conjure up imagery of Tea, Crumpets and loving the queen. This is not true (stereotypically) for Scots, Welsh and Irish people and it is for that reason I do not consider myself or refer to myself as British.
I don't dislike the English, I went out with a girl from England (who stayed in England) for 2 years and I have friends in England, but I don't consider myself British, because when you say "British" people hear "English".
I'm not saying every Scot, Welsh and Irish person shouldn't refer to themselves as British, I'm just saying I don't although I am prepared to admit that I legally am a British person.

3) LOL @ ur backline!!1!

4) I've said it before, Paul Sakey isn't a, excellent winger, I would say he's perfectly adequate...and he seems to score a lot of tries for England...which unless I'm mistaken is how you win games in most cases. Maybe his defense is ropey, but for his offensive work it's hard to say he's terrible.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
What people see in Sackey is beyond me. I lol @ England if he's the best wing you've got.
[/b]

He's quick, strong, scores lots of tries and has a very underrated defence. Unless Horgan's on fire he should walk into the Lions team.

[/b][/quote]
I don't doubt his finishing ability; I agree that given in any try-scoring situation, 99 times out of 100 he'll finish it, but since half the tries he scores are sitters that the majority of the British population could score I find him unbelievably overrated by Wasps fans and the English population.
The wings for the Lions should be:

Shane Williams
JSD

If there's any justice in the World at least.

While we're at it, I suggest we put Dan Parks at 12 and Chris Paterson at fullback.
Oh, and don't forget Adam Jones at tight-head.
[/b][/quote]

I wouldn't put Dan Parks anywhere near a Lions shirt, there are a plethora of talents 12's in the UK; James Hook, Gavin Henson, Olly Barkley to name a few.
[/b][/quote]

1. So if you are dual nationality, and you play in a second grade national team you should have to play for this nation forever, even if you don't come close to being picked for this nation? I think it's pretty unfair to stop someone playing international rugby because they once played for the second team or the age-group of a nation when they were younger.
2. So because some stupid ignorant people from outside your own country think Britain and England are one thing you will not regard yourself as British? You're as daft as them mate.
4. I think Sackey's defence is quite excellent. He never misses a tackle, and im very happy to have him on the wing for England. [/b][/quote]


1) You didn't understand what I said I don't think, if you have represented a country as a professional player (as in you have a contract to play rugby and to be payed for it as your sole or main means of income) then in my opinion, even if you only represent a country at reserve level (England Saxons, Scotland A's etc.) then you have represented that country and in my eyes that should prohibit you from representing another country.
Dual nationality is a sticky one man, I would say the same above...but it's not my job thank f***.

2) f*** you. I don't consider myself British because it's my f***ing choice not to. It doesn't mean anything else to anyone else but me. I will not be berated by some jumped up, ignorant, limey c*** on an internet forum.
It's pricks like you that make the rest of the world hate England, you smug twat.

3) Learn to count you f***ing tube.

4) I'm glad we agree on something.

 

[EnglandWillWin2011]

Ok, well im not considering myself from Yorkshire now, because people think we wear flat caps and have whippets!

 

[dundeesmiffy]

Did you get a Yorkshire passport too?

 

[errlloyd]

What you put what basically incredibly vague and didn't really add much to the conversation, thats all. Any idiot can say "lol, Johnson = fail" but you didn't really elaborate beyond that, hence the ensuing mocking. If being vague doesn't make sense to you, maybe you should review your previous post!

What I would have preferred is if you had put what you just put in your original post!
[/b]

Yeah ok point taken that's fair enough.



Hey in house, how come no one in New Jersey has alarms ?



In regard to the other Argument, I can see where he is coming from when he says he is Scottish not British. Tbh mate I am Irish not European. He doesn't want to be associated with the stereo type I can guarantee at least one person in the world see's British people as been (kinda snobby or football hooligan please don't grill me for this I am telling the truth) he would far rather be seen as the Scottish Stereo type of a William Wallace hero type or Billy Connelly. In the same way an American from New York might say he is a New Yorker in stead of an American because New York is seen as very European and the rest of America is attached to a negative stereo type in some parts of the world.

You like the Yorkshire stereotype <-- but I amint quite sure why. (My sister lives there though so I gotta keep quiet).

 

[gingergenius]

really, it shouldn't surprise anyone that a scottish person feels scottish rather than british. it's not uncommon.

i think it's a shame that British people won't consider themselves British, but at the end of the day the UK is an artificially constructed state out of 3 and 1/2 proper nations. I think the people in Northern Ireland are perhaps the most keen on being British (well the proddies anyway)...

I'm British first, then English, then a Londoner. I'd be happy to be part of the UK if we got rid of NI, and I'd also be happy to be part of England on its own.

If I were American I wouldn't know what to feel since that's the most artificially constructed country out there and it's made up of immigrants...

 

[errlloyd]

Yeah I pretty much whole Heartily agree with that, its not really where you are from, its where you want to be from.

Although the Northern Ireland example probably wasn't the best in to pick, its all quite controversial.