[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Wales vs. South Africa (26/11/2016)

[AzaMatt]

How you can say I have a chip on my shoulder, with the comments you make you must have a lorry load of spuds on yours. I have been trying to work out why the English rugby fans in general have a high degree of arrogance my conclusion is class or rather lack of it, our roots are predominantly working class on and off the field, your support and player base is historically upper class public school toffs.

your posts make me cringe. either your a deliberate troll or (i fear) you geuninely believe the nonsense you spout

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Just watched Scrum V. Justin Marshall is completely incomprehensible.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Welcome to our world, the guy is a numpty.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

He was asked his impression of wales from the weekend and his answer was that he was really impressed with France against the All-Blacks!

 

[AzaMatt]

Just watched Scrum V. Justin Marshall is completely incomprehensible.

speaking of scrum V. that rugby writer Gareth(?) finally had the balls to speak the truth on the show. as much as a love jiffy and to a lesser extent Gareth Thomas, they have been so on the fence lately, not wanting to upset anything. and the other Gareth was the FIRST person to actually name cuthbert. the others just kept saying 'a certain winger' etc. why faff about, just state the truth.

 

[Ospreylian]

The implication is that any England fan who doesn't agree with your assertion that Tipuric is the best seven in the world is either an idiot or so blinded by nationalistic bias that they would say something so stupid (read: another kind of idiot).

Aw come on, gimme a break!


It had nothing to do with the fact this particular English fan disagreed with my opinion, I have not a single problem with that. My (jokey) response was a reaction to one poster counter-arguing with three words (therefore not enough words to solidly argue why I was wrong in my opinion). Then said poster repeated the same three words in a troll-like fashion, so I responded appropriately.


In no way am I calling any English fans idiots. You've acted like a witch-hunting tabloid newspaper over that. Everything was light-hearted at that point.


Can we now draw a line under my Tipuric opinion? I solemnly swear I shall never have an opinion of him ever again on this forum.

 

[MojoPin]

speaking of scrum V. that rugby writer Gareth(?) finally had the balls to speak the truth on the show. as much as a love jiffy and to a lesser extent Gareth Thomas, they have been so on the fence lately, not wanting to upset anything. and the other Gareth was the FIRST person to actually name cuthbert. the others just kept saying 'a certain winger' etc. why faff about, just state the truth.

Absolutely, refreshing to see someone who is actually willing to put their neck out with their opinions. Gareth Thomas especially has been pretty painful to watch for the last few weeks. And Shane wasn't much better either. It's a shame they've only had Gwyn Jones speak in tiny clips directly following the game - he's a good analyst and very honest, would be interested to hear his take on things.

 

[Ospreylian]

Absolutely, refreshing to see someone who is actually willing to put their neck out with their opinions. Gareth Thomas especially has been pretty painful to watch for the last few weeks. And Shane wasn't much better either. It's a shame they've only had Gwyn Jones speak in tiny clips directly following the game - he's a good analyst and very honest, would be interested to hear his take on things.

To be fair on certain players like Shane and Martyn Williams, they have played under Gatland and Howley so may still be in contact with them or friendly with them. Therefore it's a bit difficult to slate them on tv and then be civil with them in real life.

 

[AzaMatt]

To be fair on certain players like Shane and Martyn Williams, they have played under Gatland and Howley so may still be in contact with them or friendly with them. Therefore it's a bit difficult to slate them on tv and then be civil with them in real life.

im sure they would be man enough to not take it personally. but i can understand what you mean.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Absolutely, refreshing to see someone who is actually willing to put their neck out with their opinions. Gareth Thomas especially has been pretty painful to watch for the last few weeks. And Shane wasn't much better either. It's a shame they've only had Gwyn Jones speak in tiny clips directly following the game - he's a good analyst and very honest, would be interested to hear his take on things.

Yes! Don't get me wrong, Gareth Thomas was a top player, a lovely guy clearly and a great ambassador, but my god is he painful to listen to. He needs to be appointed to the position of Official Team Wales Cheerleader and perform at half time - I agree, much prefer to listen to voices of doubt and caution on scrum V. But to be fair, it's more the culture of the programme encouraging that than any individual, I think.

 

[AzaMatt]

Yes! Don't get me wrong, Gareth Thomas was a top player, a lovely guy clearly and a great ambassador, but my god is he painful to listen to. He needs to be appointed to the position of Official Team Wales Cheerleader and perform at half time - I agree, much prefer to listen to voices of doubt and caution on scrum V. But to be fair, it's more the culture of the programme encouraging that than any individual, I think.

they seemed very uncomfortable with the other Gareth's comments as if they were not expecting him to speak like that. but it was certainly refreshing as a viewer

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

they seemed very uncomfortable with the other Gareth's comments as if they were not expecting him to speak like that. but it was certainly refreshing as a viewer

To be honest I doubt he'll be getting invited back in the future! I think the others just werent used to it on scrum V - Jiffy to be fair is one of the more measured and critical panelists - with Martyn Thomas I agree with Ospreylian he probably keeps closer ties to the players and doesn't want to ruffle any feathers

 

[ALJ]

To be fair on certain players like Shane and Martyn Williams, they have played under Gatland and Howley so may still be in contact with them or friendly with them. Therefore it's a bit difficult to slate them on tv and then be civil with them in real life.

With respect to them both, if they can't be honest and objective, they don't belong in the role of a pundit.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

With respect to them both, if they can't be honest and objective, they don't belong in the role of a pundit.

But again, they are decent enough pundits outside of Scrum V. Therefore if there's an issue it's the framework of the program.

 

[ALJ]

But again, they are decent enough pundits outside of Scrum V. Therefore if there's an issue it's the framework of the program.

Fair point.

 

[dullonien]

Can we now draw a line under my Tipuric opinion? I solemnly swear I shall never have an opinion of him ever again on this forum.

Don't worry, I'll give my opinion instead. Given more time as Wales' starting 7, I could easily see him being the best in his position, arguably is already imo, but hasn't had the game time to prove it. Anyone who wishes to cite the Aus game as a reason why he isn't, a linking openside is always going to look like crap if the rest of the pack don't front up! But He was still one of the only positives in that match, creating attacking opportunities out of nothing.

Looking around the top international sides, I don't see too many other opensides above him. Not a massive fan of Sam Cane, but that might be a little unfair. Hooper is obviously up there with the best, whilst I think Josh van der Flier is a hell of a talent. Pockock plays all his test rugby at 6/8, which imo rules him out. SOB has been injured, and may struggle to displace Josh at openside anyway. Warburton is constantly injured, but behind Tips in my view anyway. England still lack a genuine openside, not that it's holding them back in any way! I'm probably missing a couple, I'm a little out of touch with France atm.

Anyway, not fussed if I change anyone's opinion really, just glad that he's hopefully, finally Wales' first choice in the jersey. Should have been the case for at least 3 years!

 

[valley commando]

To be fair on certain players like Shane and Martyn Williams, they have played under Gatland and Howley so may still be in contact with them or friendly with them. Therefore it's a bit difficult to slate them on tv and then be civil with them in real life.

Nugget has said on record that Howley shou;d not get the Wales job after Gats without at least trying his hand at coaching a club or region.

 

[Hendo74]

Bit late to this but anyway......

Not the worst game ever but, although I was dubious about their supposed lack of quality, after a bright start SA were pretty dismal. It does of course leave us wondering what next for Wales.

Firstly, 3 wins out of 4 is fine. It was important to win, first and foremost; the blooding of young players can start from now.

As to their style, yes we want them running and spraying passes around, but they also need to remember the attributes that have brought them success in games - it's how they combine them, they don't need to reinvent the wheel. Teams like England aren't the most exciting/progressive to watch (no offence), but they are getting the results by playing to their own strengths.

Standout performer was Tips, of course. If you told the ABs they HAD to pick a current Welsh player in their starting XV (weird as that sounds), I'd have thought he'd be top of their list? However, as good as Tips is, I can see the case to put Warbs in because he does seem to offer more physicality there. Moriarty has also performed very well in these games, but it's great to see Faletau back nevertheless. AWJ might not have been at his very best all year, but his most recent performances, put into the context of his personal life, have done him great credit. Liam W has been great, ½p is getting his confidence back and I've been impressed with Nicky Smith. North must improve, although he isn't getting enough ball. Cuthbert needs to get himself right at club level before he's considered again.

As much as I like them, it's maybe time for Jenkins, Lydiate and Roberts to now be considered as reserves in their positions (i.e. they can still do a job – Lydiate in particular can still recover his form, time's on his side). The 12-13 partnership needs persevering with, both players aren't on fire but I think they can come good.

I've seen enough of Sam Davies to think he can be the starting 10, although that would be harsh on Biggar – might there be a case for trying him at 12 instead if need be? He's physical enough and there's no doubt about his kicking ability etc. Anscombe didn't do too badly but I don't think he's ever really been given enough of a chance in his preferred position.

I don't see enough regional Welsh rugby to know for sure, but it sounds like Giles is well worth a go, certainly as an impact sub.

For the 6N I'd therefore suggest not making too many changes form the current starting XV, but allowing the newer lads plenty of game time to make an impact.

First XV (with some alternative formations):-

1. N Smith
2. Owens
3. Francis
4. Charteris
5. AWJ
6. Moriarty / Warbs
7. Warbs / Tips
8. Faletau
9. Webb (if fit)
10. Biggar / S Davies
11. North / Giles
12. S Williams / Biggar
13. J Davies / S Williams
14. ½ p
15. L Williams

Bench:- Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee, Cory Hill, Roberts, G Davies, S Davies, Giles.

 

[AzaMatt]

to be fair to biggar he clearly is trying to play flatter now and even made a half break after a dummy pass. i think he's worth persevering with at least for the time being. let Davies get a few more bench appearences and then start him for the game against italy

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Don't worry, I'll give my opinion instead. Given more time as Wales' starting 7, I could easily see him being the best in his position, arguably is already imo, but hasn't had the game time to prove it. Anyone who wishes to cite the Aus game as a reason why he isn't, a linking openside is always going to look like crap if the rest of the pack don't front up! But He was still one of the only positives in that match, creating attacking opportunities out of nothing.

Looking around the top international sides, I don't see too many other opensides above him. Not a massive fan of Sam Cane, but that might be a little unfair. Hooper is obviously up there with the best, whilst I think Josh van der Flier is a hell of a talent. Pockock plays all his test rugby at 6/8, which imo rules him out. SOB has been injured, and may struggle to displace Josh at openside anyway. Warburton is constantly injured, but behind Tips in my view anyway. England still lack a genuine openside, not that it's holding them back in any way! I'm probably missing a couple, I'm a little out of touch with France atm.

Anyway, not fussed if I change anyone's opinion really, just glad that he's hopefully, finally Wales' first choice in the jersey. Should have been the case for at least 3 years!

Matt Todd and Ardie Savea? Both quality open sides. Todd offers just as much as a link man and also more at the breakdown than Tipuric. Ardie is being nurtured by the ABs off the bench until he reaches his optimum fighting weight, which according to what Hansen has said is 106kgs. He is currently 102kgs, same as Tipuric.