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[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Wales vs. South Africa (26/11/2016)

Ospreylian

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Don't worry, I'll give my opinion instead. Given more time as Wales' starting 7, I could easily see him being the best in his position, arguably is already imo, but hasn't had the game time to prove it. Anyone who wishes to cite the Aus game as a reason why he isn't, a linking openside is always going to look like crap if the rest of the pack don't front up! But He was still one of the only positives in that match, creating attacking opportunities out of nothing.

Looking around the top international sides, I don't see too many other opensides above him. Not a massive fan of Sam Cane, but that might be a little unfair. Hooper is obviously up there with the best, whilst I think Josh van der Flier is a hell of a talent. Pockock plays all his test rugby at 6/8, which imo rules him out. SOB has been injured, and may struggle to displace Josh at openside anyway. Warburton is constantly injured, but behind Tips in my view anyway. England still lack a genuine openside, not that it's holding them back in any way! I'm probably missing a couple, I'm a little out of touch with France atm.

Anyway, not fussed if I change anyone's opinion really, just glad that he's hopefully, finally Wales' first choice in the jersey. Should have been the case for at least 3 years!

Thanks Dullonien! I knew I could rely on you for back-up on the Tipuric debate!

I think you're right when you say he hasn't had enough time to prove himself. He definitely hasn't. It's been one of the most frustrating selection issues with the Welsh management, alongside the Cuthbert thing. When I constantly see Warburton appearing as one of the Welsh representatives in people's Lions XVs I am so perplexed because Tipuric to me is clearly playing a class above Sam at the moment. But, like you say, it's because the wider rugby-watching public hasn't had a chance to see him on a regular basis yet. Hopefully that will change now though.

I really do think a back row of Tips, Faletau and Moriarty right now is a mouth watering prospect going into the six nations.
 

The Jones Boy

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Thats a very good back row but i don't think its better than the Irish back row, and the English back row will give them a run for their money.... who knows what the French will bring but they are improving.
 

j'nuh

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With respect to them both, if they can't be honest and objective, they don't belong in the role of a pundit.
But again, they are decent enough pundits outside of Scrum V. Therefore if there's an issue it's the framework of the program.
I don't think the BBC operates under any pretence of impartiality when it comes to sports punditry and commentary. They go for balance instead. (Which IMO is the right way to go.) But Scrum V is a Welsh-interest show, so I don't really see why they need any balance.
 

ncurd

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The BBC is governed by rules of impartiality when comes to reporting the news. Even than they can chose what to report and not.

Scrum V would classify as entertainment so the bias can be huge.
 

valley commando

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I don't think the BBC operates under any pretence of impartiality when it comes to sports punditry and commentary. They go for balance instead. (Which IMO is the right way to go.) But Scrum V is a Welsh-interest show, so I don't really see why they need any balance.

Nugget is impartial as is Guscott who often appears on Scrum 5, which as a program is far better than that tosh they have on BT sport I think it's called rugby tonight, crap format full of patronising presenters.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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Scrum 5 is by the Welsh for the Welsh and so it's hardly surprising nor wrong that it is therefore biased for the Welsh. The only thing I've found a bit odd was at the end of the last 6N there was no mention at all that England had won the grand slam, despite after every other match they would have a brief overview of the other teams. At best it got mentioned in passing conversation, I think about 30 seconds or so. Found that a bit odd. I'm more surprised at how reluctant they are to properly criticise the team when they play badly, it's all too restrained.
 

dullonien

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Matt Todd and Ardie Savea? Both quality open sides. Todd offers just as much as a link man and also more at the breakdown than Tipuric. Ardie is being nurtured by the ABs off the bench until he reaches his optimum fighting weight, which according to what Hansen has said is 106kgs. He is currently 102kgs, same as Tipuric.

Certainly, but neither are regular international starters yet. NZ will always produce a lot of exceptionally gifted opensides, because they always produce an abundance of fine footballing forwards, which fit the 7 role perfectly.

I also think that people are too quick to dismiss Tipurics work at the breakdown. He's not a Pocock who's immovable once he gets into position, but he'll win his fair share of turnovers.

Anyway, I don't think Tipuric is the best openside in the world, but I think in time, if he's continued to be selected, then he could prove to be.
 

Pieter Steph du Teague

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Certainly, but neither are regular international starters yet. NZ will always produce a lot of exceptionally gifted opensides, because they always produce an abundance of fine footballing forwards, which fit the 7 role perfectly.

I also think that people are too quick to dismiss Tipurics work at the breakdown. He's not a Pocock who's immovable once he gets into position, but he'll win his fair share of turnovers.

Anyway, I don't think Tipuric is the best openside in the world, but I think in time, if he's continued to be selected, then he could prove to be.

I'd be very interested to see Tips vs Savea. Both very good footballing flankers, both mobile and very good at the breakdown. Sadly, at 27 I don't think Tips has much hidden potential to find anymore, he's probably in his prime ATM. Savea on the other hand is only 23 and as others have said, not at his prime weight yet. If he can overtake Cane in the ABs pecking order then he could be the best 7 in the world. But as you say, so could Tips. Needs a chance to prove himself consistently.
 

RedruthRFC

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To be fair on certain players like Shane and Martyn Williams, they have played under Gatland and Howley so may still be in contact with them or friendly with them. Therefore it's a bit difficult to slate them on tv and then be civil with them in real life.

If they aren't prepared to give their opinions, what does it say about them that they would take money to do so?

To be fair, this is a big problem in rugby journalism - the rugby world is such a microcosm that there are few who can afford to be honest - most would be biting the hand that feeds them if they were. I guess this effect is starker in the Wales than most places.
 

RedruthRFC

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I probably don't watch as much televised rugby as most here, but I'm surprised that Brian Savea isn't getting more love. He'd be my pick of sevens in the world right now (given that Pocock doesn't do so internationally). IIRC the Kiwi contingent were glad to see Brian Cane off the field and Brian Savea on it against Ireland. Saying that, Kiwi here said that they wouldn't miss Brian Whitelock and Brian Retallick for the Chicago test!
 

Mrs. Peter Quinn

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Nugget is impartial as is Guscott who often appears on Scrum 5, which as a program is far better than that tosh they have on BT sport I think it's called rugby tonight, crap format full of patronising presenters.

Sorry but what planet are you living on if you think scrum V is better than rugby tonight!?
 

MikeTheNative

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A win is a win I suppose, even if SA were rather poor. Attack looked better and we are starting to see a bit of variation, I'm not going to praise the defence though as I think that's more SA being crap than anything else. What's next for the Welsh side?
While I don't think it's the best centre partnership, it's going to have to be Williams and Davies going forwards. They do seem to lack a bit of pace and Davies doesn't seem to know how to draw and give but until we have somebody else a chance we have no options. Front row is a bit of an issue, Jenkins was decent but we really need to be blooding Nicky Smith now I was impressed every time he came on. Neither hooker impressed me at all, it was a bit of a joke that the inform hooker in Wales, Sam Parry, didn't make the squad. It was made even worse by the completely average performances that Baldwin and Owens put in, Parry has to be given a chance in the 6 Nations. Tight head is a bit of issue, I don't think either Francis or Lee at the moment at international standard, hopefully Nicky Thomas can hit some form and start to look good. 2nd Row is just a case of who partners Alun Wyn Jones, I don't think any of the others really put their hand up but I would like to see Cory Hill get more of a chance. He didn't really set the world alight but neither did the others. Back row is the one place where Wales do look strong, albeit struggling with 6s although I think Moriaty will be a great player.
Scrum half is another area of concern Webb is class, when fit, but back up to him is worrying. Lloyd Williams was very poor against Japan, no urgency at all and our attack suffered. Gareth Davies is a great try scorer but not that good of a scrum half, his delivery can also be slow. Is there promising up and coming players at this position? 10 they do have some talent but whether it will be used is another matter, Sam Davies needs to get a start at 10 it should have been the Japan game but Anscombe was given the chance instead. Despite always looking average and he looked average again, absolute waste of a dual contract, I thought they were meant to encourage Welsh talent to stay in Wales? Not attract an ok New Zealander to play for Wales. Finally wing/fb, how one of the most exciting wings in Wales didn't even get 10 minutes I have no idea. Liam Williams at FB and halfpenny at wing as they showed in the Japan game is the way forward. I like Amos but he seems to be injured half the time and I'm worrying whether he will ever reach his potential. North can be one of the best wingers in the world on his day but when was the last time we see that? He seems to be struggling with form and confidence but the way the Wales play doesn't help, he never seems to get the ball in open space. There have been calls for him to move to centre, which would help him get the ball in hand for once but there are questions over his passing range. But it seems that J Davies can't pass so that might not matter.
 
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