[November Tests 2017 EOYT] Italy vs. South Africa (25/11/2017)

[Ainsthrilln]

Yeah but Italy must get more money from playing in 6N and other Tier 1 sides. The money matters to coaches and facilities.

It's not Italy's problem that it is almost impossible to break into rugby. That is rugby's problem.

Well, they have been playing on a yearly basis with the best teams of Europe, and almost yearly with Argentina, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

It is very difficult to get among the best teams, but they had more opportunities than most teams.

And of course money matters, specially in the home games, but I imagine that the Australian tour and the match in Singapore against Scotland were not very profitable for them. What I suggest is that a match against Japan would have been better that the one at Singapore. And maybe a visit in June to the US should be considered sometime soon.

I do not criticize them for visitting Australia (in fact they played quite well there), but they only play against Top10 nations, and I think that helps them.

On the bright side, Italian homegrown players are getting better. Against South Africa only 4 starters were born outside Italy, if I am not wrong, and at some point only 3 of them were on the field. When I starting rooting for Italy on 2007, in many games less than a half on their players were born in the country.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Yeah, compare Italy to Scotland. Isn't the Scottish team half foreign born?

It'll be tough but I hope Italy get some wins in this year's 6N. Maybe they can beat France and Wales. I also don't think that Scotland are unbeatable.

 

[Ainsthrilln]

Yeah, compare Italy to Scotland. Isn't the Scottish team half foreign born?

It'll be tough but I hope Italy get some wins in this year's 6N. Maybe they can beat France and Wales. I also don't think that Scotland are unbeatable.

Yes, this is also true. Lot of people criticized the naturalization policy of the Italians, but not so many did the same with the Scottish. Maybe the results are the difference, or maybe the tradition.

I really hope they can beat at least a match, I root for them, but without winning habit, it is not so easy to wrap the games. Look at how many games were losed by the Italian sides of the Pro 14 by just 1 point this year.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

In my humble opinion, Italy should play more with tier 2 sides. Apart from a couple of matches per year against the odd Pacific Islander, Italy only plays against stronger teams. Most of times, far stronger.

It is not easy to improve your attack, and gain confidence in your game, if you always get outpowered by the adversaries' defenses. I understand the anxiety of playing against Georgia, but I believe that more games against the likes of USA, Japan or Romania would allow them to try different things, gain some matches, and ranking points, and start believing that they can win matches.

From a purely rugby perspective I agree entirely, particularly on the Singapore match with Scotland. This year has been better than most, with two games against Fiji and one against the Pumas, in theory, not vastly superior sides - or at least ones you can play without fear of losing by 50 points if you experiment and have a bad day. The rumours are of Georgia next November.

There are many positives going on with youth development in recent years and fitness, conditioning and coaching this year at the Pro14 sides. But there is a problem. O'Shea is making himself indispensable as a kind of Director of Rugby, but the success of his coaching team on the national side is far less obvious. Italy will have to keep him and his staff until the RWC and I can't decide if we are going to improve at all in that time (I go back and forth in my mind).

 

[TRF_heineken]

It wasn't a fun game to watch. The conditions were terrible.

Pollard's kicking improved considerably since the French test. Which makes me think that it was just cobwebs being shaken off last week.

Not much I can say about the performances, everyone did their job, apart from Skosan, who again didn't impress, and was yet again terrible under the high ball.

I think now that Gelant has made his debut, he should be a direct swap for Skosan for the Wales game.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

O'Shea described as "visibly upset" after the match. At least I wasn't the only one. Relieved he is at least realising things are bad. You can't fix something without first acknowledging that there is an issue.

 

[Da Grappla]

In my humble opinion, Italy should play more with tier 2 sides. Apart from a couple of matches per year against the odd Pacific Islander, Italy only plays against stronger teams. Most of times, far stronger.

It is not easy to improve your attack, and gain confidence in your game, if you always get outpowered by the adversaries' defenses. I understand the anxiety of playing against Georgia, but I believe that more games against the likes of USA, Japan or Romania would allow them to try different things, gain some matches, and ranking points, and start believing that they can win matches.

I get your point but that's the purpose of Italia A or Italia XV, I don't know how it is called.

You are gonna learn way more from losing against the best than from winning watered down Tier 2 teams