NZ set to fight SA on ELVs

[Steve-o]

http://www.super14.com/news/viewarticle.asp?id=15749

Which is in response to...

http://www.super14.com/news/viewarticle.asp?id=15724

 

[Prestwick]

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That said, can you guys slow down? We're only just getting used to the current ELVs and the myriad ways in which refs ref them

 

[Steve-o]

Well it looks to me that is what SARU is trying to do

 

[jawmalawm24]

To be honest I agree with South Africa we should all just stick to the same ELV's not trial after trial there's too many rules going around now it's just confusing. There's the Air New Zealand Cup rules with the 3 stage instead of 4 stage scrums than there's the Super14 ELV's that everyone just got use to and now they wanna do different ELV's for both the Super14 and Tri Nations next year WTF!!!!

 

[Prestwick]

Who do you guys think will prevail? Has Australia said anything yet?

 

[Steve-o]

John O'Niell reckons SANZAR would be "waving the white flag" if this had to happen.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jawmalawm24 @ Sep 26 2008, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

To be honest I agree with South Africa we should all just stick to the same ELV's not trial after trial there's too many rules going around now it's just confusing. There's the Air New Zealand Cup rules with the 3 stage instead of 4 stage scrums than there's the Super14 ELV's that everyone just got use to and now they wanna do different ELV's for both the Super14 and Tri Nations next year WTF!!!![/b]

Well there was agreement among the different unions about the ELVs to be followed for the competitions which started after the 1st of August.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

From IRB website

The global trial of the IRB Experimental Law Variations (ELVs) starts on August 1, 2008. However, due to the fact that the southern hemisphere season commenced in February there are some southern tournaments that are trialling more than the 13 ELVs that have been approved for global trials from August 1.

Special dispensation has been given to the southern hemisphere Unions to continue the more extensive ELV trials that are already in place. These tournaments will come in line in with the global trial at the start of the next southern hemisphere season.

The IRB will convene a meeting with representatives from the IRB Law Project Group, Executive Committee and Union representatives in March 2009 to begin a full review of the ELV programme and to recommend to the IRB Rugby Committee which ELVs, if any, should be adopted into Law. The Rugby Committee will then report to the IRB Council and in July 2009 the IRB will determine one set of uniform Laws that will be played globally from August 2009 onwards.[/b]

The NZRU and ARU want to follow with the current ELVs next season and this is in contradiction with the agreemt that was achieved in April. I understand that the SARU disagrees for the time being.

 

[gingergenius]

Obviously no one Australian should ever be allowed to have an opinion, or at least any time to be heard. Cricket/ rugby/ athletics there's always someone senior with something stupid and pom-bashy to say that makes no sense at all. O'Neill is a c*** and isn't worth listening to.

Basically, I was anti-ELVs when they came in on the basis that the game was absolutely fine as it was.

With some of them being trialled in the GP, I was prepared to have an open mind and give them a chance. I don't need any diehard ELVers to quote stats about how many scrums or whatever; we've had 3 rounds of matches now, I've been to 2 GP matches this season and have watched highlights etc., and from what I can see, from what other people are saying and from what the players and coaches are saying, everything seems to be a muddle.

The league's been incredibly scrappy in general thus far; tries are not being scored with anything like the frequency of last year and there's so much confusion over referreeing.

From what I can see, SH rugby was doing just fine under the old rules. If attendances weren't high enough, it was not the fault of the game... just look at attendance figures for the RWC or the annual increases in GP attendances.

NH rugby evidently does not suit the new rules. If they worked down south, they don't work here. The SH can no longer complain we haven't even tried them; we have. And they are crap.

There is no need for people like O'Neill to blame NH conservatism for inhibiting the game; and to try and make us feel guilty for it. I've heard talk of a split for those who want the ELVs. Fine. Jog on. Bear in mind that we're the ones who make the real money out of the game, we're the ones who get 80,000 in for internationals... splitting from us over something like this would be suicide.

 

[Boggle]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 27 2008, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

With some of them being trialled in the GP, I was prepared to have an open mind and give them a chance. I don't need any diehard ELVers to quote stats about how many scrums or whatever; we've had 3 rounds of matches now, I've been to 2 GP matches this season and have watched highlights etc., and from what I can see, from what other people are saying and from what the players and coaches are saying, everything seems to be a muddle.[/b]

you're basing your opinion on 3 rounds of matches ?

the Super 14 was a mess for the first few rounds too and turned out to be absolutely awesome.

I don't get this "NH rugby evidently does not suit the new rules" your all humans, 2 arms and 2 legs, you may play a more forward orientated game, but so do some SH teams.

As for these extra few laws, I think NZRU are being a bunch of pain in the necks about this, we've finally gotten a worldwide set of laws that -everybody- should be using and now they just want to jumble things up again.

 

[Prestwick]

It might be worth to point out that the confusion over the refereeing is more to do with random IRB refereeing dictats than the ELVs themselves.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Sep 27 2008, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It might be worth to point out that the confusion over the refereeing is more to do with random IRB refereeing dictats than the ELVs themselves.[/b]

Nah, you know you're wrong do you ?

 

[Prestwick]

I know I'm right, thats for sure

It should be up to the discretion of the referee what he looks at so long as its within the bounds of the law. For the most part referees are rational adults who command the respect of players and coaches alike so thus I think its wrong and way over the top to start slapping them around with conference calls and directives on how to referee.

What the IRB and the Unions should be really doing is funding better and more effective training and development of referees. More red tape, targets and directives does not solve the problem and does not raise standards. Anyone who has ever worked in a school, police station or hospital in the UK can tell you that

 

[Maccaweeny]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 27 2008, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Obviously no one Australian should ever be allowed to have an opinion, or at least any time to be heard. Cricket/ rugby/ athletics there's always someone senior with something stupid and pom-bashy to say that makes no sense at all.[/b]

Obviously you're showing them how it should be done by expressing an informed and non-partisan opinion?

If only the Australian Constitution Act was never passed, you guys could actually stop us from delving into our wily ways (i.e making generally retarded statements) when you're so much better at it yourselves.

I mean, wow, someone in a sports ministry made a negative comment about the U.K. If the Crown revenue had a penny for every 'I hate the English' comment that was thrown around by foreign officials you would actually be able to pay your combat servicemen a higher salary than what a traffic warden receives.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Sep 27 2008, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 27 2008, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With some of them being trialled in the GP, I was prepared to have an open mind and give them a chance. I don't need any diehard ELVers to quote stats about how many scrums or whatever; we've had 3 rounds of matches now, I've been to 2 GP matches this season and have watched highlights etc., and from what I can see, from what other people are saying and from what the players and coaches are saying, everything seems to be a muddle.[/b]

you're basing your opinion on 3 rounds of matches ?

the Super 14 was a mess for the first few rounds too and turned out to be absolutely awesome.

I don't get this "NH rugby evidently does not suit the new rules" your all humans, 2 arms and 2 legs, you may play a more forward orientated game, but so do some SH teams.

As for these extra few laws, I think NZRU are being a bunch of pain in the necks about this, we've finally gotten a worldwide set of laws that -everybody- should be using and now they just want to jumble things up again.

[/b][/quote]

Well six rounds have already been played in France and we cannot say that the new laws are a success either. However I agree with you it is still to early to express a definitive view on the ELVs and of the reinforcement of the breakdown law regarding the sustaining. By Christmas time we should have a better view and for sure at the end of the NH season, we should know what works and what doesn't work.

 

[silent_shadow]

SARU appears to be making sense.... there must be a catch.

 

[Steve-o]

http://www.keo.co.za/2008/10/15/sanzar-cant-decide-on-elvs/

Breaking news!
No decision has been made...

 

[Prestwick]

Maybe they all just met up for some beers and to play some Halo 3 and only just remembered about the ELVs when the day was coming to an end?