Player of the Super Rugby Season

Discussion in 'Super Rugby' started by SomeOke, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. SomeOke

    SomeOke First XV

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    A big performance in the semi's and finals could change things but we do have plenty of information already.

    The obvious front runner is Ardie Savea, he's been his usual devastating self with ball in hand and randomly has become one of the best fetchers in the comp on top of that.

    Other candidates:

    Sevu Reece - Only played half the season and completely blew it wide open, by all accounts a douchebag but my god what a talented rugby player.
    Richie Mo - As above only played half a season but has been deadly.
    Pollard - Showed what he can do when he doesn't get injured, far and away the top point scorer in the comp, just consistently very good.
    Ben Smith - Amazing season from Ben from accounts, is he aging in reverse?
    Will Genia - Carried a few games single handidly, absolutely world class and the only Aussie who I think walks into a SR 15.
    Moyano - One of the most dangerous backs in the world bar none, this guy is pure magic. If my team is playing the Jags and he gets the ball I groan in anticipation of some pain.

    There's probably plenty more.
     
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  3. bushytop

    bushytop First XV

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    Haven’t watched a lot of Super Rugby this season but every match I have caught (or the majority of anyway), has involved a Brumbies win... so Pete Samu has looked good, as well as Lealiifano and Speight.
     
  4. mania

    mania First XV

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    agree about ardie.
    whilst your other candidates are all backs. backs cant do sht unless the forwards are laying the platform , fetching and securing the ball
     
  5. SomeOke

    SomeOke First XV

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    I noticed you didn't mention any forwards either haha, it's a tough one. Kwagga Smith deserves a nod but he's not really up there, so does Duane Vermeulen and RG Snyman, I'd need some help with Australasian backs (Pete Samu spent almost the entire season on the bench if I recall). Frizzell was a world beater at times despite also being rested a lot, Scott Barret comes to mind as does Brodie Retalick as usual. All of the Aussie hookers were also unusually good.
     
  6. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

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    I mostly agree with all your sentiments, except Brodie hasn’t been himself.

    Yeah Ardie is number one.

    Number two is more interesting and I can’t profess to have watched every game though I have watched pretty much every game involving a New Zealand team plus a couple other games.

    mounga, kwagga, and snyman from your list for me, alb not on your list as well as cane in the last few weeks but that probably isn’t enough. Matera perhaps .

    A very hard thing to judge though unless you are watching every game with that intention. Noticing who is hitting the rucks and not getting their in time, whose clean outs are effective or who is assessing the solution to see when a big cleanoit to get quick ball is important,etc . And if you were at the game you’d see another perspective again, about how the player is assessing the space.

    You also have to consider decisions of the player vs playing to a game plan, therefore you need to know what the game plan is.
     
  7. Larksea

    Larksea First XV

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    I've seen more Chiefs and Blues games than anything else.
    If not for Brad Weber the chiefs season would have been a dumpster fire. His brilliant form and leadership in the absence of the chiefs big 3 players Cane, Retalick and DMac. Chiefs MVP and maybe the best 9 around right now.
    ALB has had a pretty awesome season, last i checked he had beaten the same number of defenders as Laumape and was top in the comp by miles for offloads.
    Savea has had an awesome season, his running game has been mind blowing. But I think some people need to take a cold shower and look at some of the stats. Matt Todd beats him in some critical stats for a 7. and IMO for test rugby the #1 job for a 7 is owning the advantage line on defense and in that regard he is well behind Todd and Cane.
     
  8. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

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    Where do you get these stats from? Every time I see stats in rugby they are either wrong or just missing the important elements .

    Ardies running game is not by a long way the best aspect of his game. If he had the same running game as Todd he would still be the best player in the world. The way he moves players at the ruck on attack is his best quality. His decision making is his second best quality. His defensive ruck play in terms of turnovers, or contributions to turnovers, or legally slowing the ball down is his third best quality.

    I just read last night that Scott Robertson reckons Ardie is the best player in super rugby too.

    I don’t think there is such a thing as #1 job for a seven because it depends on the makeup of the team what their role is. Certainly I wouldn’t say owning the advantage line on defence would rank as #1 in the majority of 7 roles. And if it really was the most important thing then Michael hooper would be number one by some distance.

    I would encourage you to watch Ardie for a game, in terms of everything he does, because if you are just seeing his running you are not seeing Ardie.
     
  9. RugbyUSA

    RugbyUSA Academy Player

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    Semisi Masirewa of the Sunwolves had a great season. He was second in clean breaks, fourth in tries with 11, fourth in metres carried and sixth in defenders beaten.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  10. Larksea

    Larksea First XV

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    I've not found any single best place to find stats which is really frustrating, have to look at 3+ sites to get a good idea and often a stat site will only have one good stat and a whole bunch of noise like I look at lineout stats at one site and its the only good stat I get from that site. Rugbypass has some good stats but its clearly incomplete. But one good example of what it shows is that Todd and Savea have made about the same number of tackles this season but Todd has played more than 2 hours less Rugby than Savea, but more to that is the effectiveness of those tackles. Cane is IMO the most effective defender we have. a heck of a lot better than Hooper as well, by that I mean he is so good at stopping attackers on or before the advantage line and in so he stops opposition teams gaining any momentum, its more than just making tackles. Sure the 7 has many jobs and must be multi skilled but for test rugby and the All Blacks those key defensive stats are so much more important than they are in super rugby and in particular tight games and finals rugby. That same site shows just how great Savea's running game is with his meters and defenders beaten. But heck look at the weekends game. Todd made one of the key attacking moments of the game with ball in hand, made a bust and drew two defenders offloaded in the tackle which a couple of passes later Sevu ran in for a try. While Todd dont clock up meters like Savea does he still has a very effective carrying game. What it boils down too IMO is the extra bulk Cane and Todd carry around. They are harder to hold up and they take down opposition ball carriers harder and faster, more on them when they hit rucks. Where Savea is faster and more mobile but doesn't have that same stopping power on defense, IMO again this year Cane or Todd should be our go to opensides and Savea makes a good bench option. But its a big call to take 3 opensides in a 31 man squad. My bet is they will all get test caps this year, all get a chance to prove themselves. But IMO I think we would be much better off with Cane or Todd starting when it comes RWC knockout games. I think those two are more likely to make a difference in close tightly contested games.
     
  11. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

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    I looked at that site and some of its stats seem very off, eg turnivers won, so they are either wrong or they are defining things quite differently.

    I know what you mean tegarding cane tackling players before the advantage line, he is very good at that. But that is still hoopers specialty. Cane is more like part hooper part pocock part latter day McCaw.

    I also agree that cane does this more than Ardie, because Ardie is more often playing the role of fetcher. You can’t do both. It’s also why hooper does it more than cane, when he is playing with pocock, because it then gives pocock the opportunity to fetch. Cane and Ardie play a less singular role in that regard, each weighing up the decision at the time.

    Ardie may not carry as much weight but he is still the most effective player at the clean out, even slightly better than Sam Whitelock at the moment. Savea uses his strength, and agility so he can best maneuver his body to use his strength.

    Human brains like to put things in boxes, eg the guy that’s a good runner or the guy that’s a good tackler, and Ardie suffers from that. Unless you are watching really closely and without preconceived biases it’s practically impossible for the human brain to judge. And you can’t concentrate on everything in a game that’s hapoening at once. That’s why i tend to focus on a few players a game, while noticing everyone else more generally, less intently. I’ve watched Savea and I’ve watched cane and Todd, and to me Savea and cane are one and two in that order in the latter part of the competition, for any position, but Savea still easily number one.

    I’m probably due another dedicated watching of Todd, so I might do that this weekend.

    I think there is potentially space for all 3 at the World Cup, as 7 is probably still considered a reasonably specialised position, and Ardie can back up at 8. They Could pick dalton instead of Todd as a 7/6 option depending on who else they take. They can always bring Todd in Should there be an injury.
     
  12. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    Mo'unga or Marx for me. I know the latter wont be a popular choice. Marx was not surrounded by the the quality he deserves, but he is a monster scrummager, he's outstanding at the breakdown (lost count of the turnovers he gets) he's an above average ball carrier and i cant recall the last time he ****** up a line out (throwing of during the maul phase). He's pretty much everything I expect from a #2.

    I like Pollard better than Mo'uanga, but i gotta admit Mo'uanga had a better season.
     
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